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-   -   Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Review @ TechRaptor (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48447)

HiddenX September 10th, 2021 19:54
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Review @ TechRaptor
 
TechRaptor has reviewed Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous:

Quote:
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Review

Pathfinder as a tabletop roleplaying game is an odd beast, as publisher Paizo went for a 3.5-styled, heavy crunch kitchen sink approach to their system. For well over a decade it has been a major fixture of tabletop gaming, and it was a treat to finally see a video game version a few years back with Kingmaker. Now though, developer Owlcat Games puts out all the stops with their second Pathfinder title, Wrath of the Righteous.

In a lot of ways, Wrath of the Righteous is as ambitious as you get in the genre; it's an epic tale with a cinematic flair we rarely see in the world of isometric RPGs. It adds more to its systems, despite the amount of bloat it can carry. It ups the production values ten-fold and adds more new mechanics that it possibly can hold. And it is, without a doubt, the best isometric RPG to come out since Planescape: Torment.

[…]

Score: 9/10
More information.

MAHak September 11th, 2021 01:32
“… And it is, without a doubt, the best isometric RPG to come out since Planescape: Torment.”

Thread’s gonna be like…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMabRbuN3c
(Me included!)

purpleblob1 September 11th, 2021 01:38
I wouldn't compare WotR to PS:T but I would say WotR is the best RPG since BG2 for me ;)

Couchpotato September 11th, 2021 01:42
In the old days I would grab a pitchfork and show-up were that guy lives. Then you realize it's just one mans opinion and hardly matters. Saves you a lot of anger.;)

rjshae September 11th, 2021 03:05
Quote:
I mentioned previously that the addition of a 360° camera control was both innovative and frankly a long-needed addition to isometric RPGs.
The reviewer is seemingly unaware that the 360-degree camera for an isometric game had already been implemented in Wasteland 2, well before the release of the original P:K. Hopefully Owlcat's implementation is as good as inXile's was.

Couchpotato September 11th, 2021 03:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae (Post 1061654201)
The reviewer is seemingly unaware that the 360-degree camera for an isometric game had already been implemented in Wasteland 2, well before the release of the original P:K. Hopefully Owlcat's implementation is as good as inXile's was.
It's not bad but the rotating camera does get annoying after a while.

JDR13 September 11th, 2021 06:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae (Post 1061654201)
The reviewer is seemingly unaware that the 360-degree camera for an isometric game had already been implemented in Wasteland 2, well before the release of the original P:K. Hopefully Owlcat's implementation is as good as inXile's was.
Did he really think no previous isometric game had ever used a rotating camera or was he talking about Unity Engine games? There were other games long before Wasteland 2.

Stingray September 11th, 2021 09:18
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061654228)
Did he really think no previous isometric game had ever used a rotating camera or was he talking about Unity Engine games? There were other games long before Wasteland 2.
Original Sin 1 had an option to enable camera rotation (was off by default), and it came out 3 months before Wasteland 2. Don't think I can personally name anything earlier, but wouldn't be that surprising either.

I assume by "isometric" we are talking about games with no camera perspective, as opposed to top-down 3D (eg: Neverwinter Nights). The difference was discussed in this old thread: https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/show…11&postcount=7

Redglyph September 11th, 2021 11:41
I feel that the camera gives me some extra freedom, and I can admire the area. I always feel a little bit trapped with a non-rotating camera. Just a personal preference. And I rotate and pan with the keys while I move the party with the mouse, so it doesn't really take me more time to manage it. It's just an habit.

To say it makes the game more modern and that it changes the experience a lot is probably stretching it a bit though. ;)

There are so many other nice features, so yes, I think it's definitely in the top RPGs of that genre that I've played.

vanedor September 11th, 2021 12:34
Didnt Neverwinter Nights had rotating caméra, back then?

They Live September 11th, 2021 12:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanedor (Post 1061654244)
Didnt Neverwinter Nights had rotating caméra, back then?
yup but that was some kind of 3d, not sometric.

Redglyph September 11th, 2021 13:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by They Live (Post 1061654245)
yup but that was some kind of 3d, not sometric.
Neither are the "recent" games, technically (other than the Infinity engine and a few other custom ones).

So not only NWN had a 360, but it also allowed to move the camera height (not until an update, IIRC).

Alrik Fassbauer September 11th, 2021 14:42
These kinds of games [isometric RPGs, sometimes even with TB] were virtually unthinkable until the success of Larian's D:OS, which basically brought back isometric RPGs to the table, so to say.

Stingray September 11th, 2021 14:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redglyph (Post 1061654248)
Neither are the "recent" games, technically (other than the Infinity engine and a few other custom ones).
No, not true. Games like D:OS and Pathfinder actually are isometric, even though they are implemented using fully 3D graphics. NWN isn't. Also see ATOM RPG which is implemented using fully 3D graphics, but can be switched between regular 3D or isometric mode.

In my previous post here, I linked an old post of mine (from a different thread) that tries to explain it…but basically the term "isometric" in gaming is used to refer to graphics that don't have a camera perspective, ie everything is flat. (To be technical the word "isometric" also refers to a specific angle of 120 degrees, but that isn't typically what people mean when talking about whether a game is isometric)

Ripper September 11th, 2021 15:09
I would say that none of those games are isometric - maybe "fixed perspective" would be a better way of describing it. Isometric means you're dealing with a 2d plane, drawn with false perspective to give an impression of a 3D space. PoE is isometric.

I do think it's quite a significant distinction, in the sense that the design is quite different if you're using an isometric image, or a true 3d space.

Stingray September 11th, 2021 15:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061654256)
I would say that none of those games are isometric - maybe "fixed perspective" would be a better way of describing it. Isometric means you're dealing with a 2d plane, drawn with false perspective to give an impression of a 3D space. PoE is isometric.

I do think it's quite a significant distinction, in the sense that the design is quite different if you're using an isometric image, or a true 3d space.
Not sure fixed perspective is a good way to describe it. It's more like there's no perspective at all, no camera. In "isometric" games, things don't get smaller as they're farther away.

Ripper September 11th, 2021 15:18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray (Post 1061654257)
Not sure fixed perspective is a good way to describe it. It's more like there's no perspective at all, no camera. In "isometric" games, things don't get smaller as they're farther away.
That's what I meant by "a 2d plane, drawn with false perspective to give an impression of a 3D space". I'm saying fixed perspective might be a better way of describing the 3d games that use a locked camera at a similar angle - because I think there is a distinction.

Stingray September 11th, 2021 15:21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061654258)
That's what I meant by "a 2d plane, drawn with false perspective to give an impression of a 3D space". I'm saying fixed perspective might be a better way of describing the 3d games that use a locked camera at a similar angle - because I think there is a distinction.
Ah ok, makes sense. Guess I misunderstood what you were replying to.

Redglyph September 11th, 2021 15:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray (Post 1061654254)
No, not true. Games like D:OS and Pathfinder actually are isometric, even though they are implemented using fully 3D graphics. NWN isn't. Also see ATOM RPG which is implemented using fully 3D graphics, but can be switched between regular 3D or isometric mode.

In my previous post here, I linked an old post of mine (from a different thread) that tries to explain it…but basically the term "isometric" in gaming is used to refer to graphics that don't have a camera perspective, ie everything is flat. (To be technical the word "isometric" also refers to a specific angle of 120 degrees, but that isn't typically what people mean when talking about whether a game is isometric)
Ah OK, that's interesting to know they implemented an "isometric" mode in 3D engines. But after all it's just a particular case of 3D.

Anyway, the point was that NWN, as well as most of the recent games, supported 3D and a rotating camera. So it's been around for a long time.

Stingray September 11th, 2021 15:29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redglyph (Post 1061654260)
Anyway, the point was that NWN, as well as most of the recent games, supported 3D and a rotating camera. So it's been around for a long time.
Sure, but NWN (and probably most of the rest of the games you're referring to) wasn't isometric, it had a 3D perspective. The quote from the article is: "A lot of it comes down to upgrades to the design. I mentioned previously that the addition of a 360° camera control was both innovative and frankly a long-needed addition to isometric RPGs." As people have pointed out, there actually have been isometric RPGs that had rotatable cameras…although not a whole lot of them.


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