Dragon Age - Might Not Catch with Console Gamers
 

Patrick Klepak on the MTV Multiplayer blog writes that he couldn't quite come to grips with Dragon Age in a recent demo. He acknowledges he has never played Baldur's Gate and doubts DA will resonate with console players:
More information.

And this is why I got so upset about the delay. EA made them release it also for consoles. Console gamers are just a different market for this type of games. The outcome of this, in my deepest fears, is that EA 'suggests' changing the original game to make it more 'console-friendly'. Less strategy and more action. Less boring NPC interactions and more BOOMs.
Will they keep the PC version different and separate than the console version, or keep them more or less synchronized in changes? The first result of this we know already, delaying the PC version more than 8 months so it releases simultaneously with the console versions. Who knows what will come next? a lot can happen in 8 months.

That's actually some good news.

Indeed.

They talk about optimizing and stuff, but I fear its just dumbing it down to console market. Its a shame really because consoles don't have too many complex games and there are quite many console gamers who actually enjoy complex games.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

With comments like this is it any wonder console games have a rep for "Dumbing Down".

I am both PC and console player and right now i play Fallout 3 on my Xbox 360, partly because my PC not powerful enough to run the game, and partly it is much more playable on Xbox 360 controller. I don't agree with this opinion. Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fable 2, Fallout 3 sold well on consoles. These games prove that console gamers can enjoy deep western RPGs, not only Japanize so called RPGs. Ofcourse there is a console crowd out there who does not know or want to know about RPGs, and just happy with their shooters. But, there are also console players out there for ex who made acquaintance Fallout universe with F3, and craving for more. Now what is wrong about that.
Unfortunately, PC gaming is crawling with piracy, and that is why they prefer such a strategy. The Witcher sold nearly 1 million, and i believe if there is not any piracy, this game easily can sold 3-5 million, just like BG. Consoles have the strength of that.

I think the people who posted above consider Mass Effect, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 to be console style RPGs.

Well I'm happy to hear this console monkey didn't like the 'tactical' battle. That gets my hopes up.

Exactly. And here I thought it was just a false stereotype; this guy is sure trying to justify the idea that console gamers are the retarded step-sibling drooling in the corner while mixing play-dough with his own feces and eating the result. From the article:

Uhhh, does this dimwit realize that BG-style games (isometric, somewhat tactical and multi-person party) have absolutely nothing in common with MMOs? But then again, it's an MTV person, so I guess he can't help being an idiot--probably a job requirement and all.

This news cheers me up. Am I a bad person?

I haven’t played “Baldur’s Gate,” but I have played BioWare’s spiritual successor, “Dragon Age: Origins,” and after a 10-minute session (albeit one without a proper tutorial), it planted the idea this style of RPG might not resonate with players who’ve come to expect differently from BioWare.

This gave me a nice warm fuzzy feeling all over:)

I would never listen to anyone who said they need a proper tutorial. Dude, put down the bong and read the freaking manual.

I know what you mean, but in all fairness to mr. Klepak, I don't think the demo version he tried came with a manual ;)

Exactly. I'm thinking that I would like to play this on my Xbox 360 not only because I'll have to upgrade my PC to play it there, but I like the format where I can do away with mouse and keyboard and relax with a gamepad. However, I'd like a complete cRPG experience on the console.

And to the people who claim that such a game could never control well with a gamepad, I say: I don't believe you.

Good news indeed… The PC/Console flame war has started anew on the official DA-forums. With this latest fuel to feed the flames it's gonna be a huge bonfire I bet. Anyone know if the reporter played the PC-version of the game? Or have the console versions progressed so far that they are playable?

I think you missed a few 'morons' and 'retards' in there.

Oh look the PC "superiority complex" crowd jumping all over this poor guy. As i understand it Final Fantasy (just to name one) is quite hardcore yet sold millions and on the other end i bet there will be PC players who will not like the more slower, methodic, strategic combat of DA. Stop acting pathetic.

Yes. In fact, I'm sure that in Japan, most people find their Final Fantasies and Dragon Quests to be superior to western RPGs.

Spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! Not any console game, including the "hardcore" FF(I guess my definition of a hardcore RPG is very different from yours)

What is so superior about liking a different kind of game than the masses like? You go have your fun and I'll play what I like. If that is superior then sign me up for the snob society.;p

BG wouldn't translate well onto a console. Could you imagine trying to play that game with a gamepad? Same, I guess, goes for DA. But hey, I say let them try to get the console gamer a taste of a real RPG.

I'm sorry but any FF or JRPG isn't my definition of a fun RPG. Give me slow, methodic, strategic combat any day. The slower the better. Hell, let's make it so slow that it's turn-based. I think that is why we are considered a niche genre, not everyone and their mother likes our games.

Actually, Interplay did start a PS one portation of Baldur's Gate but stopped it after some time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk31Z3jyuHI

I think it's pointless to demonise a guy on a mainstream site who - surprise! - has no background with PC CRPGs and prefers a streamlined, action focus. Good for him.

Good for us that it appears Dragon Age isn't to his taste.

FF is turn-based.

I'm sure Estel was referring to certain other poster(s) that were name-calling certain groups of people and not people simply enjoying a different kind of game.

I could, actually. I really don't see why this should be impossible. There have been excellent GUI innovations for certain genres in console games. Sometimes it's hit and miss, but then again: certain genres have done well on PC for a much longer time, so they had more time to mature in this way. I could conceivably see ways to make a complex RPG work well with a gamepad.

Ironically, most jRPGs are turn-based. Of course, I know what you mean, but there have been fairly deep jRPGs with excellent character progression options, multiple paths, choices and interesting combat. So it just depends.

Thanks for that. I didn't know this!

Although I prefer CRPGs by far, I would never be naive enough to think there aren't great console RPGs as well.

I really enjoyed the earlier FF games up until FF 8, which is when that series took a turn for the worse imo. I've heard a lot of good things about FF XII though, and I plan on playing through it when I can find the time. The Dragon Quest series is very good as well.

As far as Baldur's Gate on a console goes, if they can successfully port RTS games like Command and Conquer to the Xbox, then I'm sure they could do games like BG as well. They would probably decrease the difficulty level a notch.

The likelihood that the game will be altered to suit him, or people with tastes similar to his, is very real, however.

FF is "hardcore"? Really? Not since 7. I mean, unless you think brainless grinding is hardcore, in which case MMOs must be the very epitome of hardcore CRPGness. Super!

Cool, I wasn't being cynnical when I said, hey go for it, if it's possible then why not. Give the consolies a taste of what we keep talking about with our "hardcore" games and maybe we'll have a fighting chance that some decent RPGs can be made. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the only games I know of right now that do huge amounts of sales in our genre. It would be nice if some of these well developed and meaningful games coud get some love too and yes I'm very impressed with what Dragon Age seems to be. I'm looking foreward to many wasted hours enjoying the awsomeness of it :biggrin:

I've played FF7 and 8 plus Septerra Core and a few others. What they think is turnbased and what I think is are two totally different things ;p They have sorta a quasi-pause and play type of turnbased. Not my cup of tea.

Plus, I'm sorry but 1 or 2 minute magic scenes EVERYTIME I cast the spell is TOO much even for me. Yes, it is really pretty, but isn't there a way I can skip past the 100th waterchick spell that lasts forever? That's my main gripe with JRPG, that and their huge eyes. I have nightmares about those eyes :lol: Basically if they weird them down a few knotches and make it possible so I can skip those magic summoning cards animations, then they might be tollerable for me at least.

As for Baldur's Gate on the PS, that would of been great for them if they could of pulled it off, but I don't see how could they. But hey, I'm no expert and if they found an uncumbersome way of controlling all your characters in a fight or just even moving around then that would be pretty cool to see.

@Dhruin I wasn't demonizing him, I was giving him such much needed advice. I've had to put my bong down to read the manual before I could figure a game out ;) Don't try playing Dominions 3 with a bong in your hand, it just doesn't work :p But that is all moot, I guess he didn't even have a manual, but I''m sure it came with some sort of operating manual.

Still I loved his "proper tutorial" comment. Gives me a little chuckle everytime I think about it.

I'll join the crowd pleading that DA not be "consolized". Please, God. Pretty please. Cherry, sugar, sprinkles, whipped-cream, hot fudge, whatever the hell else you want on top.

EA will not accept anything less (more?) than a totally playable and appealing console title for the console crowd.

There's no doubt WHATSOEVER in my mind that they will change the console version and adapt it to the perceived audience. What I'm curious about, is if this will hurt the PC version - and I'm pretty sure it will. There's no way they're going to be developing essentially two games - so they're going to have to find some kind of compromise, which can't result in a "pure" PC game.

Bioware's track record of PC/console versions being markedly different isn't exactly sterling in any case. JE on XBox and on PC are more or less identical; KotOR PC has only a slightly different UI; ME PC has exactly the garbage inventory the 360 version has. Homogenization for all--long live laziness and death to effort!

Only thing is this time they made it (before they sold out) for the PC only. It would be sorta ludicrious to fix it so that it is playable on a console and then use that version for the PC as well. They already have one for the PC. One for them, one for us. A win win if you ask me.

RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Me: Here, I'll try to reassure you with a note about how it's kinda hardcore.

RPGWatch: We do not believe you. It is simshipping with a console.

Me: Um, okay. But it's not being made for the con--

RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Me: Here's an explanation of the difference in design philosophies and goals between Mass Effect and Dragon Age, and why you won't see Dragon Age losing the hardcore RPG elements that Mass Effect lost.

RPGWatch: We do not believe you. You removed multiplayer.

Me: Why the hell would that matt--

RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Me: Here's some MTV thing where a console gamer says that it's too old-school and hardcore and tactical for him.

RPGWatch: We do not believe you. They will dumb it down for the console crowd.

Me: Wait. I mean, I can see us simplifying the console game for storage and memory reasons, and to fit with the control scheme, but do you honestly think we're going to dumb down the PC version of the game?

RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Me: Okay, then. I'm so glad I engaged.

This is what happens when you sell out :)

Actions speak louder than words, and if you want us to believe Dragon Age is truly a title with creative integrity - then you'll have to let the game speak for itself.

No reason to keep trying to convince us when the game itself can accomplish that much more efficiently.

On the other hand, can't you see how unrealistic it seems that EA will accept a truly hardcore title released for a console? That will mean a TON of lost sales and I have a REALLY hard time seeing them accept that.

Don't lump us all into some hive mentality, please Patrick.

@DA, so you can keep calling Patrick a sellout but the only argument he can make is to release the game? Give me a break. These BioWare related threads are getting tedious.

@Dhruin: Apologies. I will try not to let the loudest voices affect my perception of everyone here.

Its been so long since a AAA title has been released for the PC gamer that its hard to have faith. I'm not saying its impossible, but I'm not going to assume that Bioware/EA will release such a game.

Please do not generalise across all of RPGWatch. It is not fair to some people, like me. I know you (by your posts) for a reasonable person, though, so I don't think you meant it in that way. However, I do believe you're (rightly so) taking some of the comments personally. I just hope you can ignore the tone of some posters and pick up some of the (hopefully) valid criticisms that perhaps is there among the garbage and go with that.

It just happens to be that some gamers have removed themselves so far from reality that it is impossible for them to see how reality works.

I also think so. Isn't one thread enough? Do you have to repeat the same far-fetched "arguments" over and over again?

Problem is, we have had so many games dumbed down for console in the past that it's normal that many are very suspicious about what's coming…

Personally, I remain hopeful.

All 3 of those were developed with the console in mind first. DAO will be the first one developed for pc and the ported to the console.

Personally I trust BW to deliver a very very good pc rpg.

Hey Patrick, I heard that "Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game" .,.. is that true?

:D

Personally I can't wait!

Bioware and tedios should never be in the same sentence :) The "OMG it isn't HC enough" opions are laughable and silly though. Tedious? ehh, depends if you take them seriously or not.

@Patrick Dude, I just want to thank you. Without your insight on this matter, I wouldn't be as excited about this game. As a matter of fact I probably would think that EA is up to their ol' tricks, but instead I have a little hope that they might of learned from their past mistakes and are taking our genre a little more seriously. So anyways thanks for the insight and helping make a really cool game. hope you can pull off the console version :)

Now can we get back to being happy that the MTV dude was confounded with the game?