Dragon Age - Tutorial Video 3 (German)
 

The third tutorial video in German of Dragon Age shows game menus that gives a lot of information about the user interface. Even for non-Germans this video can be really informative.

More information.

OK, this may seem rather mundane, but what a neat friggin GUI idea at 2 min 20 sec. I hope I see more of this type of creativity. Now, why, oh why, can't someone do this exact review in English? Is it ever too early to start the hype? All right, I am only somewhat serious about that part. But I do get all geeked out over an in depth character interface system.

It does appear to be a very well designed user interface for the PC and not a simple copy from the XBox 360 interface, which makes me wonder a bit how well they will be able to get equal functionality on that platform.
And yes it is even more informative if you can understand German.

Looks rather nice and functional. Sorta like a more streamlined NWN2 version.

Very nice interface indeed. I just wish the font can be changed.

Any idea if the inventory can be accessed while in battle? I mean can you switch equipment in mid battle?

The pc version was in development before the xbox 360 version so the gui was designed for the pc. Most companies just develop one interface and screw other platforms so I wouldn't be suprised if the console gui is simular.

The three German videos have been very good. There is usually a long indepth look at gameplay and trying out features.

They must have RPG fans doing their marketing. Or RPGs might be quite popular there.

only one bar?

i use 8 in WoW!

Yes, RPGs are fairly popular in Germany. Both the Gothic Games as well as the game 'Drakensang' have sold fairly well in Germany, I think?

Is it me or does this game visually look like Oblivion and Fallout 3?

RPGs are indeed very popular here. I suppose DACH is the world's 2nd most important market for PC RPGs, behind North America.

Gothic 2, Night of the Raven and Gothic 3 were no.1 hits. Drakensang too. Bethesda's games, many Bioware games (but not all of them) and The Witcher also sold very well.

A bit LTTP, but… nice! That's a very slick and usable-looking interface, and going by it the game sure as hell doesn't look "dumbed-down" in any meaningful sense of the word. I like the way the quickslots can be expanded, and the inventory looks like it could well be possibly the best one in any party-based cRPG yet.

Yep-o, I'm starting to like this again. And all they had to do was shut up Marilyn Manson and actually show off the game.

Really?

It's a shared inventory. Meaning, a party memeber standing 1 km away from the other can quaff the same potion. No more worries about who you give potions to..

It doesn't have any weight or volume limit. It only has a limit on the numer of items you can carry in your inventory, which is very high. This limit is imposed due to engine limitations as to not let the player accidentally prolong his loading times by a few seconds. But 99 same armors or swords, for example, count as 1 item.

I was referring to the user interface, not the limitations or lack thereof.

In fact, I didn't catch anything about limitations, other than that it was a party inventory. Given the fact that all BioWare games to date (and most party-based cRPG's) have had the functional equivalent of a party inventory, since you could "toss" stuff from character to character exactly as easily as if they were in your own inventory to start with, all this does is streamline the process; it doesn't affect actual gameplay the least bit.

Whether ridiculously big inventories that allow you to lug along multiple suits of full plate armor are a good thing is another question, but like it or not, they've been a feature of party-based cRPG's since they even existed.

Well it seems a lot more realistic to me if one party member at least has to give someone a potion before they can use it. Very disappointed to hear about the shared inventory…

Sure, it's a matter of preferences after all. Although, I must admit that inventory management is one the gameplay elements I care/worry about the least.
I'm more worried about the combat mechanics, e.g. lightning fast regeneration of hp and stamina/mana outside of combat, stamina/mana reg. during combat and sensible balance of various fighting styles - which, I think, is something bioware will fail achieving. But that's another topic.

It would be, if it actually entailed *doing* something -- e.g., running up to the character and giving the potion. But it doesn't work like this in any of the games we're considering -- you pop open the inventory, grab a potion, and drag it on the target's portrait, and ZING! the target drinks it, with nobody having to move.

I would very much like to play a game with a more realistic inventory -- carry limits determined by what real people can actually carry; having to drop your pack when the fighting starts (or getting hit by massive penalties for the extra encumbrance), with a consequence of not being able to reach the stuff that's in the pack; no digging through the pack in mid-combat either, with only items in pockets, belt slots or similar being accessible; not being able to magically transfer stuff between party members. That sort of thing.

It's clear that DA isn't that game. In fact, I can't think of any party-based cRPG that works remotely like this. All of them are based on the fiction of an absurdly big inventory and the ability to do stuff to stuff that's not really physically possible if you think about it too hard. The party inventory just takes out some extra clicks from this fiction. IMO that's a clear improvement.

Any particular reason you think BioWare will fail in this respect? I'm pretty optimistic about it myself -- after all, that sort of thing is their bread and butter; they've been doing it since there WAS a BioWare.

Have to agree with Tan here. The inventory in BG2 wasn't perfect, but it worked well, and was a hell of a lot more realistic than what DA seems to be.

Other than when characters were miles away (say, a thief scouting ahead), I don't recall ever having to think about character's swapping items, either. In most cases, the other chars were essentially pack mules for when the main char was full. Given that - and until a game includes pack limitations as an integral part of the gameplay - the difference is meaningless and a shared inventory is actually a step forward by recognising the reality of the gameplay.

The legendary Realms of Arkania trilogy comes to mind. Limited inventory space, movement penalties for encumbrance; equiping another weapon, drinking potions or even getting them out of the inventory during combat took up action points just like any other action, IIRC. Of course, the RoA games were turnbased, but I guess those things could probably work just as well in real-time, if the combat system was designed with it in mind.

As for a shared inventory, I agree that if individual inventories aren't integral to the gameplay, it doesn't really matter either way. But still … "unified ammo," anyone? Where's the diversity in that?

Very pleasing aesthetically, but I don't particularly like list-based inventories and I think it looks like they're wasting a lot of space with the overly large icons. But that's nitpicking, and I can't say it doesn't look really good overall - because it does.

Realism in games really needs to be considered carefully, because my experience tells me that certain "kinds" of realism are completely out of place in most games.

Especially in a streamlined "mass-market" game like Dragon Age, which will undoubtedly focus on a pleasant no-hassle experience. You can be absolutely certain that such a game wouldn't work with realistic encumbrance or awkward fiddly interfaces. You really need a certain kind of game for that, with a less broad audience as its target.

It's much the same thing for MMOs, and there's a reason the most popular ones are those that generally don't require much investment on the part of the player - at least not in terms of learning curve. There are exceptions, but that's the general rule.

Realistic encumbrance is, to me, the same kind of realism as having to eat and drink - and if you're going that route, you might as well require players to visit the restroom or other ridiculous and unnecessary parts of everyday life.

It has to fit, and it very VERY rarely does.

The Sims.

You gotta love going to the bathroom every 3 seconds. Could they of made those sims bladders any smaller?

Really? I do remember being unable to sometimes hand potions to other party members when I tactically spread them to avoid aoe damage for example. I guess you had them always on top of each other..

And… didn't you ever had your party member stunned, held, confused, charmed, go berserk etc? Because, you know, when that happens you can't access his inventory and swap potions or other items. ;)


Hohoho.. we're talking about people who can withstand dozens of sword slashes to their body, killing monsters who are 100 times larger (dragons).. I guess they can drag along a few suits of full plate mail as well, then. I don't think copying reality here would be the best solution, but I do think there should be some limit - a weight limit.
I guess we should imagine they drag the items on something with wheels and not actually enter battles with those things on their heads.


Saying something is bad, of course, is a subjective statement. I don't think I have to explain when I say something is bad that it's actually an opinion. It's pretty obvious.

No, you forgot about being held, confused, stunned, charmed, destroyed etc. It's different.


They were not "absurdly poorly balanced". 1st/2nd levels being very weak, yes, but later levels are a different thing.


Alright, as I have not played Mass Effect, I don't intend to get into specifics about it, lets talk about the topic at hand; Dragon Age and its combat. Maybe you'll get some insight..

1) First, they're using armor as a source of damage reduction - in absolute numbers. Which is ok. But, you have to have a good understanding of how things work to make this system ok.

Now.. there are some suits of armor which give you very high damage reduction which coupled with some other items give you damage reduction of, for example, 30.

If you wear such a suit against enemies who use light weapons (cca 10 damage) such as short swords, maces, daggers.. they won't damage you at all. Armor penetration won't help either (I can explain how it works if you're interested).

I was watching a dragon age video where the party fought some werewolves.. and guess what. Werevolves were attacking a party member with heavy armor and were dealing exactly 1 damage (you also deal 1 damage when all your damage is absorbed by armor). The thing is characters have 250-300 hit points at later level and start with 100-150 hp.

Is that a balanced and interesting combat encounter with werewolves dealing 0,5% of your max hp in damage, due to armor?

In D&D this is not an issues because armor doesn't give damage reduction.

2) Another thing.. I see they haven't implemented attacks of opportunity for running away and moving outside of the combat radius. I won't start explaining why this is bad.
See this for reference: http://daforums.bioware.com/viewtopi…0082&forum=135
I'm talking about situations like the one described in the link.


3) I like some strategy in resource menagement and I had that with resting (to replenish hp and spells) because at least I could limit myself with the number of restings I'm allowed to have. With automatic healing after combat this part of strategical gameplay goes down the toilet and I really dislike that.


And, you know.. is there any need to have the pc start with 150 hp.. while a dagger does 5 damage? That's like.. 30 stabs before an opponent with a dagger brings you down. 60, considering every 2nd one will miss.. and oh.. damage reduction… at least 120 attempts at stabbing.
That's it for now.

True, that. I forgot about it.

Suit yourself. I do know that I have always hated fiddling with individual inventories in party cRPG's -- it feels more like twiddling an Excel spreadsheet than having an exciting adventure, and I will be delighted to be rid of it.

Personally, I would prefer a system with quick slots for each character, and a shared party inventory, possibly with a weight limit determined by the size and strength of the party, extended with items or e.g. a horse and cart. The idea being that you can only access items in your quick slots -- e.g., pockets, belt pouches etc. -- in combat.

Sorry, they *were* absurdly poorly balanced. I know, because I DM'ed the damn thing over its entire lifetime, and had to keep inventing house rules to stop it from going entirely nuts. Dual-classing, with the idiotic restrictions as you're building up your new class, combined with the ridiculous megaton power once you pass it? Multi-classing with the stupid hard level caps? MONKS???

Every supplement seemed to throw things out of balance worse, too; the character kits were the *worst.*

No, Tan -- AD&D 2nd Ed has to be the WORST balanced RPG system *ever.* I challenge you to find a PnP system that's worse. Seriously. I've played a quite a lot of them, and haven't seen anything that comes close.

(snippity)

If DA really does work like you describe, then, yeah, it is horribly balanced.

If, that is.

Thing is, from where I'm at, you're drawing a LOT of inferences from very little information. We don't know exactly what we're seeing in these videos -- for example, we don't know how crits work, whether magical attacks can bypass armor, whether the no-attacks-of-opportunity thing is a base mechanic, some feats at work (cf. Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack, or high levels of Tumble, or any of a number of other feats and skills that you can use to avoid AoO's), or something that follows from having someone with a fast weapon fight someone with a slow weapon. We don't know if the videos are actual in-game footage, or if the encounters were set up specifically to demonstrate a point.

What I'm sayin' is that it LOOKS like you're very determined to dislike the game, and therefore you're interpreting everything you see about it in the worst possible light. (It's pretty common behavior when it comes to high-profile games.)

As to me, I'm more optimistic about DA's combat simply because BioWare has years and years of experience designing cRPG combat systems, and I find it unlikely that they would make the kind of elementary design mistakes that you so eloquently described, and I do not think the videos strongly suggest that such mistakes have been made. Of course, I'll be disappointed if it turns out that you were right all along. Won't be too long until we find out.

Sometimes I have the feeling as if some publishers don't know this …

The official GC trailer is out.

Summary: Somebody watched the LotR movies.

I've moved the majority of the off topic posts to a new thread in General CRPG. You'll easily find it. ;)