RPGWatch Feature: Book Review - The Stolen Throne
 

We can't play the game yet but we can read the book. Prime Junta casts an acerbic eye over David Gaider's first outing as an author - Dragon Age: The Stolen Throne. Here's a snip:
Read it all here.
More information.

After reading this, I would have bought the book had it been locally available…oh, well. I'll see how excited I am closer to release.

Same here. I checked for this book at the biggest English book store around Taiwan and it's not here yet.

I'll still pick this up when it gets here.

I'm wondering. Why is high fantasy so taboo? I really don't mind elvish elves or dwarvish dwarves ;) My only question would be are they written well? Do they have plausable motivation for their actions? One cliche I don't like is the evily evil bad guy who is bad just because…..or wants to destroy the world just because……
I hope that there is a little more to the book than that.

It sounds like a good book to read before I play the game. I hope I get to read it before.

Elves and gritty, huh? I always thought that they were mutually exclusive.

Why does the thread title say "Stone" Throne?

I think the page of mockery was unnecessarily long, it was funny for about a quarter of it's length. Then it's like "oh yeah, it's not all THAT bad.. I guess. At least he's trying".

Whatever. I hope next time you just write a rant, it's far easier to endure than your attempt at humor.

I'll give it a whirl, ordering it now.

I think Dhruin just made a typo!!

Nice review, Prime J. I got a chortle out of it. Not even mildly interested in reading the book, though. My tolerance for elvish spies and naive and trusting Chosen Ones is pretty much limited to games, where they work pretty well. I think it's cool for Mr. Gaider that he did it, though. It's something a lot of people will enjoy.

I just read the conclusion because he said the article contained spoilers (yes I'm hypoallogenic to that stuff). Was it really that bad? From the bits I read PJ didn't seem that bad.

High fantasy isn't taboo. With literature, especially sci-fi and fantasy, the question isn't whether the author is stealing or not. Of course he is. The question is, what he does with the stuff he's stolen. A clever thief will rearrange it in new and interesting ways, perhaps incorporate some genuinely new stuff, give them surprising twists, and, perhaps, put in real characters with psychological depth, conflicting loyalties, conflicting emotions, and what not, making the fantastic setting more of a backdrop to the eternal drama of the human condition. Or whatever.

A less clever thief will simply rearrange the stuff and produce something that's pretty much more of whatever he started out by stealing. In that case, the remaining questions are about style, feel, atmosphere, technical skill, and what not.

In The Stolen Throne's case, my impression was that Mr. Gaider is not a particularly clever thief. However, he isn't an evil thief. He's genuinely enthusiastic about what he's doing, he's clearly crafted it with a great deal of loving care, and a lot of that enthusiasm and love does carry across in the book. It doesn't read like a potboiler, marketing tool, or cynically calculated thing to mindfuck with us. It reads like something a very bright, talented, enthusiastic, innocent teenager could have written, and as such, as I said in the review, it's very hard to dislike.

(Consider this post an alternative review of the title, if you didn't like my attempt at humor.)

Oh, and: the pictures are from the 1982 TV series Ivanhoe. Stuff like this constitutes "fair use," but I think it would be nice to mention the source with the article. Dhruin?

[ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084157/ ]

I liked it. I just didn't want to read the spoilers even though you said they're painfully obvious or given away as soon as the character is introduced.

But the conclusion was witty and I got a chuckle out of the use of imagery.

Anyways, thanks for the alternative review :) Keep up the good work.

Where? ;) [OK…I covered my tracks. Thanks for the correction.]

Done.

About stealing, I think the primary distinction - to me - isn't so much what you do with the theft, but rather whether the author is conscious of the theft.

Not something easily tested, and as such PJs measuring pin is better.

But in my mind, that's the key to whether something derivative is good or bad. If the author is fully aware that he's stealing, then it's a sure-fire sign of having little to no talent or passion for the work.

If the author is unaware, then whatever he puts down on the page comes from within, and as such is truer art. It doesn't have to be great, but it's art - and I like art :)

Won't read the review just yet, since I'm reading the actual book right now. I'll wait untill I'm actually done with the book.

My impression is: So far, so good. I think it's significantly above what you can expect from someone who has never had a book published before.

I get the feeling that your review mostly said "there, there, it was a nice try, kid." Unfortunately, though, GUYder isn't a teenager--and to write like one at the age of forty plus (more? I've no idea how old he is, can't be arsed to wiki it up) is really not something to be proud of. Teenagers have the excuse of, well, being teenage. GUYder should know better.

That or he just knows his target audience. People who are pleased with Biowarian writing in general aren't going to be very hard to please; teenage crap will do just fine. Come to think of it, there's probably a huge overlap between the fanbases of Eragon and Bioware games.

.. And? It's impossible to actually enjoy BioWare games, Eragon *and* Game of Thrones?

There is no right or wrong as far as taste goes. I enjoy quite a few books and games that have very little in common, or have very different styles. I certainly consider Game of Thrones considerably better than most fantasy books, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy other books.

However, comparing Stolen Throne to Game of Thrones is redicilous, as Martins is possibly the best fantasy author alive.

I didn't mean anything I didn't actually say in the review, Essaliad. I quite enjoyed the book, warts and all, for the reasons I stated -- but it's hard to take it entirely seriously, for the reasons also stated. Mr. Gaider isn't a literary genius, but he's not a pretentious bore either.

I don't think you'd care much for it, though.

There is such a thing as terrible taste, however. Sorry.

No, he really isn't. I enjoy ASoIaF as much as anyone, but he's very very far from "the best fantasy author alive." Even many of his fans will admit the same. Of course, if you compare him to GUYder and Paolini… but that doesn't say a lot.

It sounds like the kind of book whose only reason to exist is to be mocked and used as an example as to why fantasy readers can't have nice things, yes.

Not objectively speaking, sorry.

Nah, I think that's more of a secondary function. I believe its primary reason to exist is to flesh out the background and setting to DA: Origins, and in this function it succeeds quite well.

Let's not forget the positive marketing aspect of such a book :)

Coming from someone who's a frequent object of complaints about abrasive/opinionated posts, this is ironic.

That may be, but it's true all the same :)

So tell me, how many times have you posted something and have someone flail at you with some variation of "but who are you to judge/according to whom/IT IS SUBJECTIVE"?

I'd love to see you defend the literary merits of GUYder's offering, though.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the first question.

You have a different taste than those who like this book, apparently. You seem to be the one having difficulty accepting that.

Since I just stated that taste differs, and that there's no objective way of measuring quality - it would be pointless to defend the literary merits of anyone.

I could give you my opinion, though, but I don't have one - as I haven't read it.

In German, I'd say "Jein", which is a combined word of "yes" and "no".

Of course, High Fantasy is no taboo, but people appear to believe it to be quite outdated, nowadays.

The image of "dark fantasy" also includes that it is rather a "low-level" kind of fantasy, which excludes High Fantasy.

Or in other words, according the cliché, dark ( & gritty) fantasy and High Fantasy exclude one another.

That's how the cliché goes. It need not be correct, and it need not be used this way all of the time. It's just the image.

Again, it's a matter of taste. In my opinion, Martins is at least in the top five, as some of his closest competitors (Tolkien, Jordan) are dead. There's hardly a fantasy book I'd consider more enjoyable than Game of Thrones, except perhaps the early books of Wheel of Time.

That's just my personal opinion, of course.

Really? I've read thousands of fantasy novels and I hated Martin's books. While volume doesn't mean I have good taste, I can certainly point to a reason for my dislike of his novels. I read fantasy for the escapism and to feel good about the characters and for a happy conclusion. To me, good fantasy does end with "and they lived happily ever after." I generally prefer the works of more light-hearted authors for that very reason. The story can be very dark and tragic, but if so I want the main characters to mostly stay alive. I loved Anne Bishop's series, even though the main character goes through some horrific things. I'd take the Belgariad over the Game of Thrones series any day. I also like mages who become extremely powerful, that probably says something about me personally, but I don't care :D

So I'll read it for the elf nipples and the thrusting. I cannot recall another fantasy book with hardcore elves lol

Same here.

Thats what Im looking for actually in these books made about games. I consider it as a major failure if its too detached from the game. Some say the second mass effect book is such but I havent yet read it.

Dragonlance vs "The-drow-that-shall-not-be-named". One gritty the another not but both high fantasy. Just a thought.

Re-read the review: there aren't any. It's all very softcore -- milk-soft skin, eyes brimming with tears, husky voices, fade to black…

He seems angry that he cannot make tastes, i.e. opinions, objective … and wants to trash you for it. At least that is how it is reading. That seems infantile, so I am assuming my read is wrong, so I am also confused.

Absolutely - actually, based on other tie-ins I've read through the years, your review seems utterly glowing and makes me think that $10 for the eBook might be well spent!

I probably won't read this book since I can't get into novels focused at a teenage or childrens audience but I think that any book that is liked by the audience it is made for is a good book since that is the important idea when you write the book is to make it enjoyable towards your audience.

I pretty much only read fantasy since I can't get into other genres and my most favorite books are ASoI&F series, The Riftwar series, The Black Jewels series, and the Wheel of Time series. (up till The Crossroads of Twilight) I can understand ASoI&F not being liked by some people because it is pretty depressing and I usually dislike stories where most of the main characters die but this series is good enough to go beyond my dislike for these kinds of stories.

I think most people have different standards when it comes to games, movies, and books since in general the storyline quality starts hight with books then goes down to movies and at the bottom is games. You have to adapt to the quality difference bettween the different mediums or you won't beable to enjoy the good parts about each medium. For example I wouldn't read the Harry Potter books (I probably couldn't if I tried) but I like the movies a good deal.

PS. This might be nostalgia but there was one series of books based on a game series I really liked when I was a teenager. The series was based on the Doom series but had it's own story seperate from Doom. Has anyone here ever read that series and what did you think of it?

Here's a good example. I've read the first two Martin books and I don't get what all the fuss is about. They are OK but way overly long. But not best (to MY taste) by a long shot.

I enjoyed reading Stolen Throne but then I do not feel impelled to compare everything I read to my all time favorites.

I thought the novel was an enjoyable read. Fleshed out the world and told an interesting story. Characters were better and deeper than the back cover text might imply. Not perfect, but overall left a positive impression. Also I wouldn't say it was aimed at teenagers.

The ursurper of the throne wasn't evil for evil's sake. He had been sent to the backwater Ferelden against his will as a punishment. No wonder that a spoiled, self-centered noble would take that out on those around him. Perhaps the "villains" of the story weren't as fleshed out as they could have been, but the main focus of the story wasn't on them anyway.

I think my current favorite living fantasy authors are Steven Erikson, Glenn Cook, and … well, I don't know. I'd respect Martin more if he could actually write a book in a reasonable amount of time.

So, Salvatore equivalent basically?

Salvatore is really hit or miss stuff, I look at it as a by-product of putting out a billion books a year.

Hm…didn't know anyone else was in Taiwan. I checked a few local places, but I'm sure they were nowhere near to getting it in. If you happen to find it, I'd appreciate a PM/email. :)

Cool, someone else in Taiwan at the Watch.

Sure I'll PM you if I find any place. Right now I've checked Page One and they don't have it yet. If any book store will have it it will be them.

Forget trying to order from Lai Lai. I've tried once and they never delivered. I don't even think Lai Lai is still around. Eslite has gone downhill. I don't even go there anymore except for White Dwarf magazines. If you're down south in Kauhsiung you could try Caves Books. They normally have a great selection. I believe there might be one also in Taipei where I am at, but I've never bothered to go looking for it. I just head to Page One. They'll order the book for you if they don't have it and they do actually get it unlike Lai Lai.