S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Call of Pripyat and DX11
 

According to Rock, Paper, Shotgun, Call of Pripyat will support DX11, with a new trailer on offer to presumably show that off.
More information.

DiirectX 11 is supposed to be pretty awesome, as opposed to DirectX 10 vs. DirectX 9. Are there any cards out that support it already? I guess there are, if this is going to support it.

No, there aren't but ATI's 5xxx cards with DX11 suppport are right around the corner (should be widely available within the next month or so).
The highest supported DirectX version currently, i.e. by current gen cards is 10.1 which is only supported by ATI cards, however. The green team, nVidia, only supports DirectX 10 and its DirectX 11 cards are rumored to be out Q4/2009 or Q1/2010. Possibly the latter because there have been rumors about problems with the manufacturing of the cards at TSMC (bad yields and all that).

A chance for ATI to regain ground on the high-end market?? A collegue mentioned the 5* series, sounds interesting!! I was considering a PC upgrade a while ago, I should wait! (but then again, you could wait forever)

Yes, it looks like ATI is going to take the lead in certain market segments with the 5xxx series. The HD 5870 is rumored to be ~60% faster than the HD 4870. The price of the new gen is supposed to be $599 for the HD 5870X2 (two GPUs on one PCB), $379 - 399 for the HD 5870 and $279 - 299 for the HD 5850. The first significant price cut should occur around the time nVidia releases its G300 based cards.

If you plan on upgrading now and find it hard to wait then I'd recommend to get a solid base system with one of the new Core i5/i7 CPUs (socket LGA 1156) and then a nVidia GTX 260 (or maybe even a GTX 275 if you can find a great deal for one of those).
The GTX 260 offers an excellent bang for buck ratio and you could then easily sell it on eBay in Q1 next year and get one of ATI's or nVidia's new offerings once things have settled down in terms of availability and pricing.

I will be very surprised if those prices are accurate, they seem way too high. ATI has been able to stay competitive with nVidia the last few years by offering cards with a great price/performance ratio. That being said, I still prefer nVidia cards.

Exactly. And just for that reason it makes me kind of wonder why you would question the accuracy of the prices. Of course we're very, very deeply in rumor territory here but if the 60% performance gain figure is accurate then it would seem to me like the prices sound about more than right.
Think about it. A card that performs at +60% of a HD 4870 should be able to (almost) compete with the GTX 295. The GTX 295 is currently priced at ~$480 - 500. The HD 5870 is supposed to sell for just $379 - 399.
Here you go. Great price/performance ratio. Just as you stated :) . How/why did you figure that the prices "seem way too high"? Way too high compared to what?


Same here for driver, compatibility and power consumption reasons. Moi is going to wait for the G300 before upgrading to a new card but I wish ATI the best of luck since nVidia needs a strong competitor.

No thanks. Pass on AMD's ATI for 10 years. Maybe by then their drivers won't try to create a black hole to destroy the universe.

Say what you will with Nvidia's drivers. I've had my share of problems with them but nothing on the scale of ATI's.

I've no doubt those indeed might be the MSRP for those cards, but I'd be willing to bet that the actual street price is lower.

The GTX 295 will be a card from the previous generation by the time the 5870 is released. I would *expect* for a newer generation of cards to provide one that is both cheaper, and almost as fast/faster. That's pretty much what happens every time a new generation of cards is introduced.

I thought that would be obvious, but perhaps you haven't been following ATI the last few years. Their 4xxx series was *much* cheaper upon introduction. Even the 4870, which was their high end product when it was released, debuted at $299.

Hehe i dont read something like this since my ATI 9600 pro :D, the problem with ATI drivers are gone soo many years ago, i never have a problem with my ATI 3870, right now i got a ATI 4870 and i still cant find any error with the drivers (not that i am looking for then :D), there is a new driver release every month, no errors with the games i play (lot of then).

The chip of the 5870 works at 800MHz (default of the 4870 was 750Mhz) and has 1600 shaders, two times more than RV770 (ati 4870).

The chip has as many as 2.1 billion transistors and is more than twice the number the RV770 packs, which has 956 million transistors. The card uses GDDR5 memory clocked at 1.3GHz (5.2GHz in quad mode) and can provide more than 150GB/second bandwidth. The power of this card stays at 180W while in idle the power drops down to 27W, three times less than the 90W on 4870.

And of course is directx 11 ready.

With no competition out there, the prices make sense, no one remember the nvidia prices before the 4870 go out 1 year ago? like $700 for a card, it was insane.
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Honda nss250

ATI's new lineup won't be out that long before the GT300 series, and I wouldn't get too excited over ATI before hearing about nVidia's next generation of cards.

http://brightsideofnews.com/news/200…s-a-cgpu!.aspx

Clear Sky tech demo in dx 10.1 here, showing off smoke and water effects, and I say it do so better than the other threads here.

I'm still using DX9? XP doesn't support any higher? I guess I don't know what I'm missing. I'm proudly a graphics whore but Stalker looks and runs great with DX9 and 2009 complete mod @ 1920x1200 and graphics options on high. (8800GT)

So, why all the hoopla about DX11, nevermind 10?

It looks even better. And DX11, better still. Simple as that.

(How much of a difference it makes in practice is largely a matter of opinion, naturally.)

If a piece of hardware or software give some improvements to graphic quality, a graphics whore wouldn't ask "do I need it?" but "how do I get it?". The same people get all worked up whenever a new tech demo comes around. Companies aren't that far behind, they know that some people work like that and gladly boost the hype if they can (as they will sell more).

Personally, I can count the important DX10 titles on two hands, and the titles in which you saw the difference on one hand. Yeah, there's a definite improvement in Crysis, Call of Juarez, Bioshock and Assassin's Creed, but one can always ask the question "is the visual improvement good enough?", and of course "am I insane enough to waste a pile of cash on these few titles that are all rather short and not even that great".

I had Windows Vista on a 2nd partition just when I played these titles, and only recently made the full move to Vista. I will probably swap to Win 7 at once when it's released.

But will I buy DX11 cards? Thing is, there are no titles around the corner that need DX11. The enginerace is long over, and all we get now are titles produced for XBox 360/PS3 which is 5 year old hardware. Even with longer view distance or better textures, the PC titles do not use modern hardware.

Yes, as always.

Huh? That's exactly what I have outlined above and what is happening here. First, the GTX 295 will be nVidia's current generation when the 5870 hits. The 5870 is only a couple of weeks away. The G300 might be several months in the future. The rumor mill is saying that nVidia might be preparing a Q4/2009 paper launch with very limited availability of G300 cards and that the real launch will be somewhere in Q1/2010 once they (or TSMC rather) have resolved the manufacturing issues. A good indication that G300 is not nearly as close around the corner as the 5xxx is the fact that nVidia has made no effort to steal ATI's thunder as they usually do. If G300 would be close then nVidia would as usual be "leaking" the launch date, specs and possible pricing of its next gen. But they aren't. They are awfully silent which is not a good sign as far as the progress in resolving their G300 issues goes.

Anyway, as for 5870 vs GTX 295 as I already said in my previous post… if the rumors are spot on then they should be going head to head in performance while ATI's offering will be a good $100+ cheaper.

Oh, I have been following what ATI has been doing, thanks. What they are doing every time is that they are picking their targets but I already outlined that above as well as in my previous post. Again: They are releasing a product that should be on par with the GTX 295 at a much lower price, i.e. they are doing exactly what I said before and what you just said (dude, we're like not even disagreeing I think ;) ).

Now if you are referring to a possible G300 equivalent then we'll just have to wait and see what will happen then but (as once again I already said in my 2nd post in this thread) it is pretty much a given that a significant price cut (on ATI's side) is going to occur once nVidia releases the G300 because, yes, the G300 is going to "pwn" the 5xxx series which is not a big surprise given the fact that -speaking in Intel terminology- the 4xxx to 5xxx step is more like a "tick" while G200 to G300 is a "tock".
But until then ATI is competing only with nVidia's current gen and the rumored pricing falls very much in line with what ATI has always been doing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to have to really slash the prices once the G300 comes out because then ATI is obviously going to have to readjust and pick new targets based on the usual price/performance analysis of nVidia's new gen.
It's (another) reason why I wouldn't even think about buying a 5xxx card once they come out. It doesn't make sense to spend money on the next gen until nVidia has gotten their act together and launches the G300. I'm hoping this won't take too long since I reckon me wants a nice, shiny new GTX 360 :) .

That's not what they've "always" been doing though. There was a time when ATI actually competed for the performance crown, rather than just being content with matching/beating the performance of a previous generation. It looks like ATI has given up up on even trying to do that, but I guess that was obvious with the 4xxx series.

The point I was trying to make though, is that while the 5xxx series will obviously be out 3-4 months before the GT300, that doesn't change the fact that it will spend the majority of it's lifespan going up against it. If the GT300 is even near as powerful as the rumors are saying, ATI doesn't stand a chance.

This is why I don't agree about the price\performance ratio. When the cheapest product of a series is still going to cost you nearly $300, those are enthusiast products\prices, and most enthusiast are just going to wait and get the faster cards from nVidia.

The reason the 4xxx series was so successful was because semi-casual gamers could get cards in the $150-$200 range that still provided good performance. I think it's a huge mistake for ATI to abandon that market segment, which it looks like they're doing, unless they simply haven't revealed everything yet….:)

Well, of course, the same will happen once the G300 is available. It will be an entirely new situation then and ATI will readjust/slash their prices then. But why should they release their new cards for cheapo now? That wouldn't make any sense with the G300 not even in sight.
ATI will naturally try to get as much money out of each and every single new card they are selling for as long as they can. Every single day that the G300 is not out yet is a good day for them since it also allows them to refine and optimize the manufacturing process of the 5xxx cards in the meantime so once they have to slash the prices it won't (if all goes well for them) hurt them as much.
They know exactly that they are going to have to put the axe (and a big one, too, probably :) ) to the prices of the 5xxx card once they are going up against the G300 behemoth but until then I can just repeat myself by saying that the purported pricing makes sense in consideration of the current market situation (GTX 295/285 vs anticipated/rumored performance of the HD 5870/5850).

I guess you didn't quite understand what I was saying. :)

In the past, ATI always released at least one lower end card at launch, a card that allowed buyers to get the newest features (DX 10, etc.) at a mainstream price. I'm just a little surprised that they're not doing that this time. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that would like to get a card that could do DX 11, etc, for $150-$200. Of course they will eventually be able to get one for that price later on, but why not also release a lesser card in that price range now?

But there are bound to be lower end ATI cards as part of this release - why do you think otherwise? The NDAs aren't off yet… Pripyat, the new Aliens and Dirt 2 I think are supporting DX11, so it looks like there might be more rapid uptake than with DX10.

ATI shouldn't even try to sell at enthusiast prices since almost all will wait till the G300 comes out. ATI won't sell very many of the high end cards and that will hurt their finances so it would be better if they started out at a lower price range since that will get the customers that want a good card but are not trying to get the expensive cards. This would be a much better financial decision and doing that before Christmas and before the G300 comes out should get them a huge amount of sales and might put them into a position that will allow them to adjust prices even further depending on what the equivalent G300 card is. Also with the difficulties that Nvidia is having they may decide to decrease the prices of their cards to stay competitive during the holiday season since they won't be able to have their new series out in time. (I would if I was in that situation)

Great here goes GSC AGAIN, chasing graphic whores instead of trying to stabilize gameplay, story and quality.

I'm going to wait and switch to the GT300 series mainly because I want to be able to use the 3D technology if I so choose. I guess I'd need to upgrade to a 120hz monitor, too - too bad Newegg doesn't seem to allow me to sort monitors by refresh rate…

3d Technology… seems to be the next step for PC. Odd.

Ah, now I get it, OK :) . This decision by ATI to not release any lower end parts yet could have a number of reasons, of course. From unfinished specs to TSMC (the company that manufactures the chips) not having enough capacity to mass produce the entire ATI range.
Or maybe ATI is not seeing any urgency to release lower end parts yet since the 4870 and 4850 are very well established in that price segment. OK, they "only" got DirectX 10.1 support but I'm not sure ATI really wants to advertise DirectX 11 as a selling point for the lower end parts anyway. All they'd end up with would be a bunch of pissed off customers because the few games that support DirectX 11 features are likely going to be a slideshow on low end cards.
Finally, I wouldn't really be too surprised if the 5850 and 5870 are actually the low end parts of the 5xxx generation and that the prices are in fact going to drop down to the $150 -200 price range that you mentioned once the G300 based cards become widely available. Anything seems possible.

Edit: Duh. The new mid-range/lower end cards have been revealed today. They are going to be the HD 5770 and 5750. Full story here.

I don't think that DirectX 11 is going to really matter much anytime soon. Sure, some developers are going to implement some of the DirectX 11 features that can be implemented with minimal effort or ones that actually make their job easier but generally I would not seriously expect of any developers to all of a sudden declare the PC their lead platform. The consoles are going to continue being the lead platforms and there is no DirectX 11 on consoles so there isn't really much hope for any significant visual improvements in the foreseeable future in my opinion.

Yeah, that was the last ATI card I owned. Still, have it but never put it in another pc. It doesn't deserve being used.

Great to hear its gotten better. Still won't go near them again unless Nvidia releases another bad line when one is needed.

That 9600 was still better than those FX cards.

Thanks for the link, I had a feeling the whole story hadn't been unveiled yet. ;)

It just wouldn't have made much sense if the 5850 was going to be their lowest end product.

I do wish ATI well though, even though I'm definitely going with nVidia again when I get my next card. We need ATI to stay competitive, so nVidia can't completely dominate the market and drive prices through the roof.