Dragon Age - Day 0 DLC Plans
 

GameSpot has the scoop on BioWare's plans for Dragon Age DLC, with three pieces available immediately on release. Two will be free to new purchasers, while Warden's Keep will cost $7 (or the points equivalent) except for the Deluxe Digital Edition:
Head over for the rest, including trailers.
In related news, IGN has a (brief) new video called Brood Mother.
More information.

DLC on day 0 ? - I don't like this new trend.

1. Make a game.
2. Cut the content.
3. Divide cut content into pieces.
4. Make DLCs from the pieces.
5 PROFIT!!!oneoneone

I concur. And there is also some kind of armor that you can only get via the collectors digital super exclusive limited edition? It's getting confusing. I want all the content but I don't want to spend my time searching for and buying different versions of the game to get the full experience. I just want to buy the vanilla version of the game, install it and press the play icon. And it should all be there on the first install.

LOL! How come I ain't suprised? I smell EA behind this move ::thumbsup:

Milking from the day 1.
Even before the release, I can tell, this is worth my personal boycott.

That armor is for everyone who buys the game, for all the different versions, same
as the Stone Prisoner. Only if you buy used, you won't probably get them since the original owner has already added them to his account. Digital collector's edition gets the Warden's Keep for free since they don't a metal box nor the cloath map.

The release got delayed so some of the DLC were finished in time for the release. The DLCs have a seperate team and a seperate budget, so naturally they won't just give them for free.

As I understand it this will allow everyone NOT buying the Digital Only Extreme Deluxe Super Collector's Edition to be able to acquire the exclusive material as a DLC … I don't really see a problem with that, on the contrary. :movingon:

I'm ok with that. My only (potential) problem is that since DLC content is entirely (obviously) optional, they may not feel like part of the game. More like 'random encounters'.

It's interesting that slowly, MMOs are turning into retail box games (i.e. no subscription fees, just pay for extra stuff) and single player games are turning into light-MMOs (no subscription fees, just pay for extra stuff). The only difference now seems to be if you can play with other people online or not (and not even that, as NWN crosses that line too)

To be fair, I understand that this is not the case here. According to BW employees posting here, they set up a separate team to work on DLC fairly early on. IOW, these are add-on developed the usual way, only they're ready on day zero. I would speculate that the reason they're ready may have something to do with the way the PC release was delayed because they were waiting for the XBox version.

When I first read the news I became somewhat frustrated, but I believe PJ is correct - the actual development of DA:O was probably done long ago, and the DLC team has been a seperate team all along, whose DLC content is supposed to fund the development of the DLC. They're probably on a completely different budget.

Yet another reason why they shouldn't have postponed it simply due to the XBox version - now people are getting confused regarding the DLC. It would've been much better if they had released DA:O in April, and then released the DLC as soon as it was ready. The XBox version could've contained the DLC, similar to the PC version of Mass Effect.

Well, I'm not sure if that would've been the best solution from an economic point of view, but it would've been significantly less confusing, and it would make them look a bit better. Now a lot of people will consider them greedy for trying to "milk" like crazy.

whatever reasons why, justified or fair in anyones opinion - still, sorry it just looks bad.

There are plenty of other games, I can wait for this one. All the content will eventually be bundled and sold as a single package and that bundle will eventually make it to the "Bargain Bin", I'll buy it then.

I think they did set up a separate DLC team to start working on content from early this year. And this was in response to the lack of Mass Effect DLC.

I am fairly sure this was not cut out of the main game. The main game has probably been content locked for a while so it can be polished, ported and optimised. Whilst the DLC team continues to create new content.

But I agree that it is a potentially bad PR issue. Bioware should have predicted there would be a backlash to this announcement. So either delay the announcement of paid DLC. Or explain that it was created by a separate team and that this is just the beginning of two years of DLC by that team.

It is a shame because in recent weeks there seems to have been more goodwill towards the game.

How does it look bad?

You can buy a complete game for the normal price. You can also buy some extra, optional content that was developped on a seperate budget if you want it. Or you can not buy it, and not be any worse off than if they hadn't released it.

This is a business, remember. You shouldn't expect them to pay people to develop extra content outside of the game's original budget and then just give it to you for free.

"Optional" extras on day 0 is nothing new in lot of other areas like cars, consoles etc. In fact many business depends on the "optional" extra to survive. So it's bound to happen to PC gaming soon or later.

First of all, no content was cut from the game to be sold later on as DLC for this game, DA: Origins.

The only content that was cut a fairly long time ago and to the lament of many forumites at Bioware, was the stone golem Shale. The delay made it possible for Bioware to add Shale, the stone golem in again. And they even brought back the original voice actors to make additional lines for the whole companion banter that's associated with Shale. Shale, the stone golem, and the blood armour will de downloadable via code for free in all editions of DA: Origins, both regular and collector's editions.

As for the DLC in general, I agree that it is very confusing, especially since the UK edition of both retail and Collector's Edition do not seem to have the same content as the US or get or even the rest of Europe. (some even say that it depends on aht game shop you buy the gamne in or where you pre-order?) The UK in generel seem only to be getting a plastic box, no cloth map, + the making of DVD+shale and blood armour while all other collector's editions will have a steel case, a cloth map and all the other content mentioned in the dlc thread at DA: Origins forums. (For some strange reason East Asia gets a wooden; however it looks way cooler than the box for DA: origins we get here in Denmark, Europe and the rest of the world).

I have to admit that even I am very confused; if you pre-order to CE of DA: Origins you get three items? for pre-ordering, if you pre-order the regular edition, you'll get two items (that are totally different from the three items you get when ordering the CE edition?); all editions, both regular and collectors get shale (the stone prisoner) and blood armour.

If you look at the trailers at gamespot for the dlc for this game, they' are calling this dlc 'expansions' for DA: Origins. I'm not sure, I like this at all, DLC is not expansions, not in the sense, we've been used to over the years. Of course, it could be seen as an expansion of the game universe, (whic it is) but it is definetely not a (full game) expansion.

And I thought you couldn't have a day O DLC plan, only a day 1 DLC plan?

edit:

Warden's Keep will set you back 7 US dollars (which is sort of an odd price tag?) if you buy the retail digital or collector's edition (those that come in a box), while it will be free for those who've bought the Digital Deluxe Edition (online-edition).

Plans are also to have dlc announced in the game via quest givers or in the game journal or at the start of the game; it is very confusing, I find.

ill skip the buy at release and wait for the cheaper complete goty version.

I take it you are not a programmer? :)

I smell ignorance behind your post ;) . Here it is straight from the horse's mouth (the horse being BioWare's Derek French. Live Producer):

… and…Source link: http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/boa…hreadid=102952

I know that this sucks for all the EA haterz but the facts is the facts, ya know? :biggrin:

Come on, nobody gives a shit about a separate development team or any of the other minutiae, and nobody but us hardcore geeks knows anything about that kinda inside baseball anyway. The impression by the unwashed masses, as Professor Konjad so eloquently put it :

They should at least have waited a couple months or something until people WANT what's offered in the other editions, then they can come to the rescue w/ the additional content which would be billed as "the extra stuff you could have gotten if you'd have bought the fancier version".

Instead, now it looks like they made a game and cut some pieces out so they could nickle-and-dime people for it.

I have no issues with this. It might look bad from a pr perspective but there are perfectly logical reasons why its ready on launch day.

Normal edition contains the stone prisoner dlc and the me and dao dragon armor dlc. The memory band and special pre order bonus items are offered by participating retailers.

The CE contains: Tin case(Uk gets plastic case and singapore a wooden case),bonus dvd,sound track disc,strategy videos,producer video,cloth map and 3 bonus ce items . Plus stone prisoner and dragon armour dlc and memory band and preorder bonus items depending on participating retailer or not.

Digital deluxe gets all the ce content except the case and the box and gets wardens keep in exchange.

UK version doesn't get the map and only a plastic box. Their digital deluxe also doesn't get the 3 ce items because of game having an exclusive deal with ea.

Rest of the world and europe gets the same stuff as the US except for singapore with the wooden box and germany who gets some of the stuff translated into german. Rest of the world gets everything in english.

Horse armor!

1) If the game out of the box without DLC isn't worth it to you, don't play it.
2) If the DLC isn't worth the extra, don't play it.

It's not rocket science.

As for the dlc and other content, I'd guess that this is just a method to get people to buy the game they want to buy. However, it is not fair to to the customers that the customers (basically us) having to weed through threads on the Bioware forums
of which content is in which edition.

DLC, and bonus content for this game needs to be the same for all platforms and all editions, regardless of whether or not the retailer has an agreement with EA or not.

To me, it is not a very smart business decision to have Warden's Keep available on day O (and yes, I'm not a progammer ;) ). Better it would have been, I think, if Bioware (and EA) have waited and then released the Warden's Keep dlc in time for Christmas for a reduced price os say 3 US dollars (under half the price they're now asking for it). This way people would have played (some of) the game; decided if they liked it or not, and then be ready to buy the dlc.

Heh, at what point do we gamers start to consider the contents of a game is "enough" to be released, and any extra "can" be sold as expansions?
From what I have read thus far, w/o any DLCs DA:O already has 80+ hours of quality gaming, for ONE play through. This is far more than Risen, which I finished in 21 hours.

And really, none of these are as bad as some of the DLCs that console games are getting, like maps, or some different looking dresses… :puke:

I don't like DLCs at all. But stunts like this is to deter rentals or resales in the Console world. Yes, blame consoles again for this…

On another note, that brood mother is going to give me nightmares… I have hard time considering "it" as a "her" and definitely not a "mother." :faint:

But that was in this case, but what if the trend continues? What if, for example, Risen was to last 30 or 40 hours, but they decided to remove some content and sell it later as DLC? (guess we'll see this if they offer paid DLC in a few months).
That's the real danger.
Of course, we can always tell them what we think with our wallets.

You should also consider that Bioware is a large company. They have a lot of designer, writers, etc., and they need to keep them busy all the time. All these guys have to do something productive or they have to be let go.
DLC is relatively small and risk-free. The time to market is much shorter than for a full price product. And because the budget is so low, DLC can easily be cancelled, should the devs be needed somewhere else. It's the ideal solution to park people until the next big thing starts.

What if they didn't remove any content, and simply created more after the main game was signed off and off to the lengthy retail QA? Wheres the danger in that?

I would be happy to see a voluntary industry standard on DL content- some form or rating system. (i.e. horse armor = 1, 10 hours of new content = 10). It could be decided by an independent group, and wouldn't necessarily be any more arbitrary than any other rating system out there, as long as they were clear on what their criteria were. (hell, I would even be happy with a site of gamers that did it on their own, as long as they were consistent). I do think that Day 0 paid DLC looks bad (as it would in any industry, including the auto example), but I am more concerned with value vs content. However, I also hate it when companies wait too long. FO3 was well out of my system (both types) as some of the later DLC content was released.

Kind of like a magazine review of the DLC you mean? Don't they review DLC already?

Someone from Bioware already mentioned that they added 60 new quests since the delay started so what is wrong with putting out some DLC. Since you are already getting way more content then you would have if the game was out on time them releasing DLC isn't a problem.

I would not mind some additional bucks for the full game but i expect a complete product when i buy it. Now i have the feeling i'm getting the "cheap" version and there may be some good reasons for this kind of DLC but to be honest i don't care.
I'll buy dragon age nevertheless but would think twice for another game.

A magazine is not non-biased, a magazine does not apply the same standards to all reviews, does not use the same reviewers for each review, does not review every piece of DLC out there, etc. They leave a lot to be desired. Hell, I have read enough poor reviews linked from here in the past month to swear of reviews all together.

You are getting a complete product when you buy it. What's DLC got to do with that?

So you would prefer what? You can't objectively say how much fun something is - that is the criteria for buying DLC right - fun?

I'm getting something like a book with some missing pages.

If you would have read my post above you would know that you are actually getting a book with a few extra chapters. They added 60 quests since the delay started so that means they were finished with the game but decided to add more quests since the game was delayed. The DLC will be extra upon the extra 60 quests you are getting because of the delay.

I don't understand some of the viewpoints, here. If a game ever gets an expansion, an addon, a "Gold edition", does that somehow make the original game incomplete?

Kalniel said it succinctly:

That's an good point which I thought about too. My answer is: in hindsight, yes. The original game was complete before an addon was released. When it was expanded upon, the original vanilla game became out of date and was no longer relevant. You basically pay for an upgrade to an old product. Now, what's really interesting is the question, what if an addon was released on Day 0?

Could that be compared to, say, all those different Windows versions there are? Or should it even be compared to that? What I know is that for me, for Day 0 DLC to be acceptable it may not provide features that are integral to the whole product. The different Windows version are arguably aimed at different target audiences who arguably don't need everything from other versions. But the DLC I've seen for CRPGs so far has, by its definition, always been relevant for everyone, particularly this Dragon Age one. If they were to release an optional soundtrack on Day 0 as DLC I'd have no objections whatsoever, because that would be an actual extra, not part of the game. I'd also have no objections if this DLC was released some time after release, because that would be like an upgrade.

But paying extra for Day 0 content that could have been part of the game from the start? No way.

That's like offering a pizza, let's call it Margherita, with optional mozzarella.

So, simply hold on to it for three months and you're perfectly happy? Does really make sense?