Dragon Age - the women of DA in Maxim Magazine - a marketing ploy?
 

If you've been following the marketing for this game, you probably know that it has been accused of catering to adolescent buys who might not even be old enough to buy the game. Now it seems Bioware are at it again:
Here's The Escapist's view on it:
I have to say that I agree with how the Escapist sees this. Is it OK to market a game this way? What do you think?
More information.

I'll be honest… as nonsensical as this may sound, I want Dragon Age to fail a little bit, based solely on how the marketing campaign has been run.

From the news lately (apparently quite hard, apparently quite tactical, apparently very deep), my hopes for the game itself have actually risen in the past couple of weeks.

But come on, Bioware. I highly doubt even the demographic you're targeting (25 and below) with these inane and plastic and eXXXXtreme ads, don't see right through it all.

Why propagate terrible marketing techniques that you yourselves would despise in any other products' ad campaign? Why give in to the show business side of the gaming industry? You're already rich; you're already very well-established.

You boast about the millions of people who take part in your online community… if you don't think the game would sell a million copies based on that fact alone, you don't understand the internets very much.

If you took all the money you spent to get Marilyn Manson, or buy some gloss in Maxim… we could have all had cloth maps, dammit.

/hopeful about the game
/soooooo turned off by the company. EA would have no effect? Right.

What he /up said, and, we're all adults here, why sensor your own newsbit by darkening the post thus requiring a highlight? Are there really people here who can't handle Maxim?

Rude titties.

This is hilarious.
I can see computer game character realism will be driven by how wankworthy the females are … hehehe

I think they finally realise sex can sell computer games as well ……

Have to say I am worked up about this not a bit. And I don't really get why people get so upset about this stuff.

Is it more than a bit immature, adolescent, and embarrassingly prurient? Surely, as is about 60+% of everything on the internet and 90+% of all entertainment media outlets. Moreover, as a 35-yr old who plays computer games all the time, I can't really be casting stones. Frankly, its essentially free marketing and exposure regardless of how you feel about it.

All's I care is that the game is good and gameplay is thoughtful and complex and this has absolutely nothing to do with that one way or the other, other than I would (no matter how mature I think I am) prefer to look at more attractive character models whether they are maxim-worthy or otherwise.

Edit: BTW If this questionable marketing helps gets a younger audience into real rpg gaming rather than Gears of War 18, its much better of for us oldschoolers in the long run regardless of how we feel about the other people in the room.

Another trainwreck from the EA marketing department.

We didn't. Some of the style commands from The Escapist were accidentally copied along with the text. Aries100 obviously doesn't use the Dark theme (neither do I) and so didn't see it. I'll fix it when I have the chance.

Couldn't careless its just marketing. Has no real impact on the game. If it attracts more people to enjoy the game great, if not so what.

I am SHOCKED that you would imply this is some kind of marketing "ploy" by Bioware!

The handful of game tie-ins they've revealed so far, like the novel, the online brag site for players, the day-one DLC, the sequel to the novel, the online comic, the upcoming print comic, the Flash game, the character generator, the trip to London, the let's-compare-tits Maxim article*— all are in service of the diehard fan of true, old skool role-playing.

*I admit I haven't check the internet in the last hour so this may not be a complete list.

Nice discussion :)

edit:

Of course, it is a marketing ploy by Bioware, and EA, possinly, too. The point being: Is this the correct or ethical way to market a game?

/edit

To me, being a fan of Bioware it is really sad :( to see them sell out this way. Bioware has been the only company so far that haven't resorted to these kind of cheesy tactics to sell a game i.e. to appeal to adolescent buys. If it really were about the woman of Dragon Age, Wynne, would have been there as well, not just the two young girls that modeled for Morrigan and Leliana.

I also think that this is pretty bad for us as gamers; the image of us as mama's boys sitting in our parents' basement, drinking coca-cola, eating, while reading such magazines as Maxim (since we couldn't get a a date), has been waning these past few years. I just fear (maybe unfounded) that this action from Bioware's and EA's side will bring these images of gamers back to the public eye again.

Let's us also not forget that this game is intended for mature audience e.g. for people over 17+ and 18+ ; my guess, however, is that many gamers that are 25+ and older will be picking up this game, simply to remisc the good old days of Baldur's Gate.

NB: My apologies if anything technical e.g the links or the quoted text didn't work as intended.

People are complaining about THIS? So the fact that they are coming out with a DLC just after the release pretending it's just extra content they couldn't add in the GOLDEN release is hardly bothering anyone but the way they are marketing the game is?

I am more worried about features getting cut from the game - which they have been working on ages - over half naked female characters (which are present in every possible game/movie/TV shows, nothing new).

I think we are going to be in the minority with this point of view, stefan. I could give a rats behind about how EA markets this game. There is no way I'm going to take the holier than thou approach to this.

Why not have a magazine like Maxim do some silly little piece on the game? It's not like there haven't been 'sexy video game girl' articles done before.

Wasn't the whole point of the photo's/article to show the models that the characters in the game were based (rendered?) on? Were they scanned, then digitized?

Quote:
"We've got exclusive photos of real-life hotties Alleykatze and Victoria Johnson who lent their sexy curves to their video game counterparts."

So if this is the case then the pics & article are fully justified imo

Now if they just went out and tried to find actress that "looked" a little bit like the characters then yea that would be a stretch ;)

I do have to disagree with earlier comment and say I think they look quite similar.

And both models are quite attractive imo

I think there's a ton of aging gamers out here who have become too ridged and tight @ssed about things and have forgotten what it's like to have some fun with things and be a bit young at heart or a bit immature…

I say this as an age 43 aging gamer and responsible adult, who still strives to have fun and as young at heart as possible ;)

It's 8 pictures, nice to look at, that "apparently" tie into the game's development.

Not the end of the world…and not the evil, inappropriate marketing ploy that some suggest.

Just my opinion.

Regards & Good gaming ALL

ps - looking forward to DAO, have the Collectors Edition(PC) game/manual ordered, looking forward to playing!

I think this is a good discussion to have.

I doubt the models were genuine inspiration for DA. I'd be surprised if the quality of concept artists Bio should have in house really need to check out some soft porn models. It seems much more likely someone in marketing realised some link could be made and packaged to Maxim (I bet they created a list of possible models and ended up with these two).

So, assuming this is nothing but marketing fluff - does it matter? It's pretty juvenile and demeans the brand, I'd say. On the other hand, it doesn't affect the game itself and therefore I don't really care.

For the guys who want the game to fail because of the marketing…really? I mean, just pretend it actually is a great game. You want to lose that because some pinhead suits prostituted the marketing dept?

It's not that big a deal. It's not. Easy to ignore. Truth be told, I haven't even looked at the Maxim spread… because, well, I don't care enough.

There are far more interesting boobies to be had.

I was going to buy the game anyway. Just like you.

Just like, I'm willing to wager, the sizable majority of Dragon Age purchasers.

The internet makes advertising and promotion largely irrelevant. Just ask the music industry.

Not that it's all going away overnight. Advertising is so ingrained in our culture; one wonders if that's even possible.

If it was just the Marilyn Manson dealio… sure, fine. If it was just the Maxim spread… sure, fine. If it was just the next-day DLC… … … and here we are.

Why not take the time to sell the story, the gameplay?

Why not show a little class?

People would respond, I think.

They're much more sophisticated than marketing agencies think.

Bill Hicks on Marketing, NSFW language.

They've done that as well. Check out all the gameplay trailers. Plus, they went the extra mile for the story. They made a prequel novel for the game. Gaidar did an excellent job setting the scene, imo. After reading that book I'm very excited to see some of those places that were portrayed there. Knowing some of the lands history is a plus as well.

I also thought of Bill Hicks when I read this. Especially, his bit on the ultimate television commercial. (Sorry about the sound quality. It was the best video on that bit I could find.)

In the end, I still don't care. They've already given me enough information on the actual content of the game for me to know that this is a game I will probably enjoy.

I found this overview on Maxim. This was done back in 2002. Maxim had (in 2002) a readership of 11,250,000. The average reader of Maxim is a single male between the ages of 18 - 34. In addition, 75% of the readers surveyed own a gaming console. If I made a game I would want an article or two done in magazines that cater to my target demographic.

Edit: I just read the article about Maxim removing the condescending original copy which was:

They say even bad press is good press, but if I was EA or Bioware I would be furious over that. I guess it's good to have some pull in the biz because that copy is gone and is replaced with this:

I'm revising my original statement of "wanting an article or two done in magazines that cater to my target demographic" to "wanting an article or two, that don't condescend my product, in magazines that cater to my target demographic."

[q]For the guys who want the game to fail because of the marketing…really? I mean, just pretend it actually is a great game. You want to lose that because some pinhead suits prostituted the marketing dept?[/q]
I can see their point. If they game does great, we're likely to get more of this horrid marketing - a lot more. Even if the marketing is driving away more people than it's attracting. It certainly wouldn't be fair to BioWare to have the game fail but it might be better for the industry in the long run.

I really wish there were a way to buy the game and say to EA that I'm getting it despite their marketing.

I guess I should have said, why not 'just' show class?

The online information available to all? The gameplay videos. The very informative website; many spells, and much lore to peruse. The book(s). The many interviews given.

That's what sold you on the game. That's what sold me on the game too.

And again, I'm willing to bet that's how most other buyers will make their own decision.

There's no need to lower yourself by employing tawdry gimmicks anymore.

The major-market advertising for Dragon Age has been just more noise in the aether… I think the average consumer has become immune to the techniques they've used.

If Jack or Jill wants to buy a new fantasy-themed crpg these days, they just tap a few buttons, and all they would ever want to know is (generally) immediately available.

This is the reason (as I'm sure you know) that whole industries are dying off the vine as we speak. Marketing-related industries.

Thank god.

There are so many better ways they could have done this.

When a vocal portion of your target audience is buying your product in spite of your advertising campaign, you may want to rethink your course of action.

2c

/may we all enjoy the game and may Dragon Age be worthy of comparison to BG2

Everyone blaming Bioware for the marketing should remember that devs have said that they don't really have anything to do with the marketing. If you don't like the marketing then ignore it like I do. I never read promotional material for games except for dev interviews. I also don't look at screenshots or videos unless they are ingame so I can see what the gameplay is like.

As I saw the headline, my inner alarm bells began to ring.

They haven't stopped since.

This just lessened my interest for that game -

- but I must honestly admit that I'm now really, REALLY interested at how this will work out in terms of sales !

I strongly assume for myself they just took the "sex part" from Mass Effect that was going through the press and someone there just thought : "Well, attack is the best form of defense !"

So now they're "acting pro-actively", so to say, they are trying to let such a "bad press" like with Mass Effect NOT to happen - and even more : They just go for the opposite !

"Sex sells !"

Which means that someone there in the marketing dept. has surely learned from that "Mass Effect Crisis" (exaggerating a bit, of couse), in terms of getting attention.

Now, this person has obviously learned that in a country like the U.S. one can actually shock = getting attention people there, which is in principle what marketing REALLY wants and what it is REALLY about : Getting attention.

From THAT point of view, their marketing is absolutely excellent : They're doing everything to get the most possible amount of attention !


Edit : Just a sidenote : The older people become, the less they can be shocked by sex alone - which means in contrary that the younger a person is, the greater the "shock effect" is, concernig "sex" … Which might say something about their wanted customer base - the age, I mean …

Fixed it on front page but it hasn't changed it in the forum.

What kind of marketing do you expect from game where you can effectively STUN and KICK IN THE BALLS the freaking UNDEAD units like ghosts and skeletions?

the new dragon age DLC adult only… see all the women in the game nude just $15… !! if you want to be able to interact… that's another DLC $15…. welcome to pornoware :D

The forum posts are copies of the actual newsbits and are created at the time of a new comment. Fixed now.

That's sorta what I was thinking. I mean look at us. We're talking about this mostly and the other Dragon Age newsbits are empty. It's because we have seen and talked about all the features and gameplay. There isn't much we don't already know about the game.So, whatever generates a buzz is good advertising, I guess.

Even that Marlon Manson trailer generated a buzz. Heck, it created a whole new saying "This is the New Shit".

Love it or hate it, people can't deny it does create awareness of the game. To those of us already aware of the game it's annoying, but I don't think this article had pc rpg fans in mind. ;)

Not mixing this with Venetica ? I remember a certain "skill" in the GamesCom demo …

ROFL ! :lol:

GothicGoddess, if that happens, I'm pushing for Dragon Age: After Dark.

As for the OP, I kind of love that there's a question mark at the end. Unless Maxim has suddenly become a deep investigative magazine doing hard-hitting articles on the process of game development, then yes, there's a better than average chance that this is in fact a marketing ploy. And a good one, I think, that might draw in some former gamers who haven't played in awhile but find their interest piqued by the article.

None of that marketing has changed what the game is. KotOR had a lesbian relationship. Neverwinter had prostitutes and a halfling chest inspector. Baldur's Gate 2 had drow dominatrices in tight leather. This time, we're using the sex in the game to sell more copies. The sexy models in no way preclude a massive deep hardcore RPG experience. All they do is increase the chances of us selling enough copies to justify further games in the franchise.

If you'd like to root for Dragon Age to fail, that's your choice. If the game does fail, it's extremely unlikely that BioWare will attempt to make another classic-style RPG again any time soon, so, you know, that's a bit of a short-term root on your part.

I'll judge the game based upon the game. This doesn't affect my opinion on the game (which has actually been shaken some recently by game-related issues) even the tiniest bit, since it has little to do with the game. Human sexuality is an age-old marketing technique, as valid as puppies. It's marketing - that's all.

All what some of us are saying is that the marketing from EA has been piss poor.

Nope, not mixing at all. Check this vid out: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/sh…-age/58070?r=1
Notice how pc uses "dirty fighting" on a skeleton, also nice "stunned" skeleton there. Ouch, and never mind those pc's successfully using slasing\piercing weapons on skeletons.

Hmm, I looked at all the images on Maxim and fully appreciate images of scantily clad females. It has zero bearing on whether "I'd" buy the game, but if it garners the Bio-dudes more sales, then I say more power to them. The one thing I personally found ironic, is that neither of the "models" were very pretty. The in-game character Morrigan?, looks like an under-developed teenager. That's not going to rev the engine of this 45 year old. The Jerro chick from NWN2 was much prettier, as was nearly every female in The Witcher. Hell, even Aerie and Viconia were much prettier than these gals.

Hey Patrick, next time see if you can get Jessica Simpson or Kerri Underwood to model for you :D

Whaaa?!
You mean it´s not a next-gen Diablo/Sims hybrid I´ve been sooo looking forward to after seeing some trailers?

Thanks for setting me straight.
Pre-order canceled!!1

Damn ea, knows no bounds to sucking. I wonder if we will ever find out this absurd PR budget cost. I be willing to bet firing the PR dept and actually funding the Q&A dept would actually net them more sales.

Shhhh don't tell ea, let them make bigger idiots out of themselves, so they keep throwing away money on these stupid PR, idiocies.

What, there are 10 new preview trailers release, today? The shock and horror!

It seems like people are blaming marketing for every piece of shit that DA offers…



Is it marketing's fault that DA has lots of violence, oceans of blood, heads flying from bodies? No.

Is it marketing's fault that there's bordels where you can have sex with a variety of prostitutes, free sex in some origins, lots of romances which all come with sex scenes? No.

Is it marketing's fault that weapons and armors in DA are anime-size? No.

Is it their fault that trees don't have shadows in DA while other things do - which looks very weird? No. At least marketing showed those videos where you could clearly see it, but bioware remained silent on the subject (even in their thread about toolset limitations).

Is it their fault that you have uber fast health/mana/stamina regen thus you can forget about battle-to-battle strategic resource management? No.

All creatures scale with your level. Their fault? No.

Sloppy level design with grass often detached from the ground on uneven terrain. Their fault? No.

Very different dialogue options with exactly the same response. Marketing? No.

250 NPCs with the same intro line: "What do we have here?" Gaider, not marketing.

In game NPCs offering DLC. Marketing? No. (At least I don't believe they are *that* idiotic to design the game by directives from marketing.)

Permanent storage ONLY as DLC. Marketing? No.

Toolset without many important and useful features that the NWN2 toolset had and yet bio-devs are talking about it as the most powerful thing evar and comparing it to the NWN1 toolset! Marketing… Nope.

Annoying and dumb fan-boy/girl passive-agressive butt-kissing community with an even worse "community manager" and "QA person". Marketing? No.

I could go on..





So stop focusing on *ucking marketing and take a look at the real problems of DA. /cue MM song.

Did the marketing make bald men grow hair? Yes.


Edit by Gorath:

This is going too far. Don't make it personal.

The marketing outcry is kinda funny.

You guys sound like a bunch of outraged little old ladies. Butch up aleady, shit!

Totally agree with this statement. I don't think the graphics are all that hot myself.

No, but people should blame marketing for the marketing. Several of the things you list are pros not cons in my book. Several are insignificant to me. I most certainly have several strong concerns about DA, a couple of which you mention, and I don't blame marketing for those things. I've been quite vocal about them in other threads.

However, marketing has done a few possibly imprudent things, and the subject of this thread is debatably one of them. In my opinion, this one isn't really that bad and I don't see much reason to be making a ruckus about this. And while I respect people's right to be offended about whatever they want, Bioware failing with DA will not be a good thing for the genre we love.

Sure. It's a valid concern and I'm also one of those not impressed (what a shock!) by the marketing campaign. That said, having SO many threads about bio. marketing tactics I was just trying to derail the attention on things I deem more important, i.e. the root of the problem.

Oh, and just for curiosity's sake - what are the "pros" for you, from the things I listed?