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-   -   Bioshock - Official Trailer #2 @ Gamespot (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=940)

Kalia December 16th, 2006 01:45

Bioshock - Official Trailer #2 @ Gamespot
Gamespot has the second official trailer today. Get a look at it at Gamespot.

More information.

JDR13 December 16th, 2006 01:45

Seeing as how this is being developed for pc and Xbox360 at the same time, I sure hope it doesn't end up being another Deus-Ex invisible War.

Every time a game is made for the pc and a console system simultaneously, the pc version always ends up looking and playing just like the console version. Pc ports rarely seem to take advantage of the pc platform.

curious December 16th, 2006 01:57

yes but this is irrational we are talking about-every single game they have made has been a pc game-most of which are great games too.

JDR13 December 16th, 2006 02:01

A long time has passed since System Shock 2, (9 years?) and Irrationals's best games were all pc only games.

I'm not going to allow myself to get too excited over Bioshock before it is released.

*edit* A little over 7 years since SS2

curious December 16th, 2006 02:14

swat 4 and expansion -one of the few shooters i've played, and loved them both.

freedom force and sequel-good games but not being a comic fan, i never could finish them. minuteman also annoyed me to no end, though characters like el diablo made it worth while.

tribes vengence-never played any other tribes games, just like with swat games, but it was enjoyable, but not a great or all that original game.

all in the past 7 years since system shock 2.

did they make any non pc only games?

i think i told someone this before already: its actually good to not have many expectations for bioshock though so 'you' can be blown away when it comes out.

JDR13 December 16th, 2006 02:29

I didn't say that they haven't been making games, but it's been a very long time since they've made that type of game. Also, Take-Two Interactive acquired Irrational Games some time ago and this isn't the same team that existed 7 years ago.

curious December 16th, 2006 03:01

obviously the team has changed, but at least two of the promenint people who founded it are still there i believe. and take-two aquired them just under a year ago, which bioshock had already been under development for at least a couple of years at that point.

i believe there were 5 years between system shock 1 and 2. and so i'm not really sure what you mean by that type of game. all of irrational's 'types' of games are different francshises. since they didn't have the rights to system shock its not like they are going to go out and use the idea before they have become a secure company. the swat games artistically are a lot like system shock 2 in that they have great level design, and the artistic variation is huge and realistic down to objects strewn across floors, in cabinets, and such. also the 'intenseness' i got from playing system shock 2 was felt by me in the swat games. opening a door and getting blown away had a terrifying effect on me like getting blown up by a walking droid that had just broken out of its box…to me i play games a lot for their style and depth (which i come to depend on from the few great developers) whether it is a rpg, rpg hybrid, fps, or whatever. until about five years ago i refused to play any 1st person game since they all seemed like mindless shooters. but after playing system shock 2 and deus ex, i expanded just a bit, though am still 'wary' of what most 1st person games have to offer me. and without a demo, no go for me.

Dhruin December 16th, 2006 03:49

No, I'm sure the people aren't all the same but it is the same "team", I believe lead by Jonathon Chey, who has played a prominent role in SS2 and FF, for example.

JDR13 December 16th, 2006 04:47

Curious, I think you missed my point entirely. None of the games that you've mentioned were developed simultaneously for pc and a console system.

Also not sure if you're aware that System Shock 1&2 were created by two entirely different developement teams.

JDR13 December 16th, 2006 05:13


Originally Posted by Dhruin (Post 12664)
No, I'm sure the people aren't all the same but it is the same "team", I believe lead by Jonathon Chey, who has played a prominent role in SS2 and FF, for example.

Ken Levine is the lead designer for Bioshock, although Jonathon Chey is indeed involved as well. Both of them had a hand in System Shock 2, but neither were involved in the original System Shock. As I said above, SS1 and SS2 were done by different teams with very few of the same people.

Ken Levine was also the lead designer for System Shock 2

Doug Church was the lead designer for System Shock 1

curious December 16th, 2006 05:26

yes, ss1 was done by looking glass studios while ss2 was done by irrational games . i actually played 2 first and enjoyed it much more. i guess we just miss understood each other. i said that because they hadn't done console games and were pc gamers themselves and had made only pc games that i believed they would definately make the pc version 'better' or at least not sacrafice it to the whims of console lovers. if anyting it should be the console people who are worried that it will be 'too complex'. doesn't a track record of solely pc games warrant some level of trust?

JDR13 December 16th, 2006 05:32

No not really. I had a lot of trust in Warren Spector and Ion Storm Inc after they created the masterpiece that was the first Deus Ex.

The bottom line is that for the sake of profits, the development team has no choice but to cater to the larger audience.

Acleacius December 16th, 2006 06:33

I am very confused now, afaik it's the same people, they have had a very small family type team before Take2.
I only recall one of the orginal founders retiring or not coming along for the move to Take2.

Also I remember as Dhruin mentions it's JChey in the Lead, KLevine has said he focuses on being creative again working on his writing and running the public side as with all the interiews and shows he has been doing, since he no longer has to chase the money.

As per KLevine I remember they have almost complete freedom as when the orginal design with WW2 enemies was going nowhere after showing Take2, he told them it was crap and they could do a hell of a better, hence the current Bioshock theme.

Yes KLevine was Lead Designer and JChey was Project Manager.

It will all come down to how flexable is the U3 engine and it looks like 7 years 1999.
They should have an easy time of it since they have worked with Unreal on at least 2, maybe 3 games, so they have the groove.

Warren's more of a front man or manager, his creative input according to him was Optical interface which got left out of Deus Ex (thank god) and he was a (outside?) producer for SS1, iir.

Nice trailer btw and Sprng 2007. :cheer:

curious December 16th, 2006 07:46

one game no matter how great it is not a track record as i see it. its a bit like a band who has an amazing first album, but exhausted all their talent and creativity in it and followed it up with much lower quality productions.

JDR13 December 16th, 2006 07:54

Warren Spector has created more than just one great game. He worked on Ultima Underworld I and II, System Shock, and Thief to name a few.

curious December 16th, 2006 10:04

i thought we were talking about irrational, not ken levine which would then be a comparison to ion storm not warren spector. though looking back you did say both. but while i agree with putting faith in one person's creativeness, i do it often, results are more likely to be consistent/balanced when referring to a development team/company as a whole. ion storm also had more than one great game but as i recall there were also 2 studios that produced games--one in dallas and one in austin i believe. i liked anachrox better than dues ex which were each produced at different studios, though i can't remember which one worked mostly on daikatana (one more reason for me to not like fps…)

Acleacius December 16th, 2006 10:12

"Warren Spector has created"
How do you mean created?
He doesn't program and don't all the credits of those games say producer?

Thief? That's KLevine's story, actually his first for games, after he left the movie indusrty.

Here you can look for yourself at his own bio, it's producer and manager. :)

Warren Spector received a BS in Speech from Northwestern University and an MA in Radio-TV-Film from the University of Texas at Austin. In 1983, just shy of his PhD in Communication, Warren joined Steve Jackson Games where he worked on a variety of boardgames and RPGs while rising to the position of Editor-in-Chief. Four years later, he moved to TSR, where he added boardgame design, choose-your-own-adventure books and novels to his resume. Warren entered the world of electronic games with ORIGIN in 1989, co-producing Ultima VI and Wing Commander and producing Ultima Underworld 1 and 2, Ultima VII: Serpent Isle, System Shock, Wings of Glory, Bad Blood, Martian Dreams and others. In 1997, after a year as General Manager of Looking Glass Austin, Warren started Ion Storm's Austin development studio. He was project director on Ion's award-winning action/RPG, Deus Ex, published in June 2000. Deus Ex was reissued in a 2001 Game of the Year edition and, in 2002, as Deus Ex: The Conspiracy on PS2. As Studio Director, he oversaw development of Deus Ex: Invisible War, released in December 2003, and Thief: Deadly Shadows, released in June 2004. He left Ion Storm in November 2004 to found Junction Point Studios, Inc., to develop videogames for next gen platforms.

Look don't get me wrong I think he has important things to say, though after what he and Harvey did to DX2 I didn't read his interviews for almost a year, I was so pissed. :p

JDR13 December 16th, 2006 18:25

Read my post again. I said he WORKED ON those games. Which is an accurate statement. He did have a hand in creating them.

Acleacius December 16th, 2006 20:37

I did read which is why I am trying to participate, just not sure what you mean be create, why I asked. :)

Producers afaik usually are not credited with creating they are more organizers/manager types, so if your definition of create includes this then, I do, mine and the way I understand it usually doesn't.

Afaik Warren has spoken about wanting to create a world but has said in many interviews it hasn't happened yet.
I posted his known creative suggestion on Deus Ex, which I actually read on a DX2 interview since he was able to convince Harvey about the circular optic inventory.

I was on Blue's talking about KLevine and System Shock once and KLevine came in and corrected me on a couple of things related to his story/writing credits (the Irrational site had temporally gone down and I was working from memory) also about Warren being an outside producer on System Shock.

If I knew more I would certainly post it. :)

Also I blame Kalia. :p

JDR13 December 17th, 2006 04:11

As project director, he had a lot more influence on Deus-Ex than just some creative suggestions. He is also listed as a designer on System Shock 1.

This from Wikipedia…..

"Subsequently he worked with Origin Systems and Looking Glass Studios, on games including Ultima Underworld I and II, System Shock, and Thief. Later he founded Ion Storm Inc.'s Austin branch, which went on to develop the widely-acclaimed games Deus Ex, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and Thief: Deadly Shadows before being closed by owners Eidos Interactive in February 2005"

Anyways…. back to the topic.

Bioshock. Is it going to match the hype, or disappoint?

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