What's wrong with that?

C'est le ton qui fait la musique - don't focus on the what (you say) but focus on the how (you say) - is an ancient advice to prevent collisions.
Don't listen to THAT advice, it rarely makes any difference - a wise lesson I've learned myself from bruises I got not very long ago:

It's often not the what, it's often not the how, no… It's the who.
Some are allowed to speak up, no matter how they say it. They receive a smile, sometimes even an applause.
Others, using the exact same words or words chosen with far more care, are taken for small persons who have no right to speak up. Boos and insults is what they get.

I really wish that WHAT people DO would determine how other people react.

(BTW for the few that know me: I'm absent and stopped doing things in the background the minute I discovered an old design of mine was being used without anyone ever asking me whether it was ok to use it, or even taking the trouble of informing me about changes made - app. no one cared whether I would have liked to make any changes myself as well. It was the last drop/straw…)

This thread caught my eye. I hope I'll be able to resist next time. :-)
Apart from the wish mentioned above I wish you all a happy, healthy, wealthy 2010.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

But since we're on a forum where no actions are really taken, all we have are words and what is said.

But the point was that while OTHERS might bash the Mac platform mindlessly, I actually meant to do nothing but jest a bit.

I don't want to get into a debate based on nothing but emotional investment on one side, and me being completely platform-neutral on the other side. I care nothing for platforms, because to me they're all the same thing. They're stuff made by companies looking to maximise their profit. I look at what I want, and then I look at where I can get what I want, and in the end I consider the costs involved and go for that which represents reasonable value for money.

Mac doesn't cover a single of those, so obviously it's not for me.

O, I just thought that you thought that letting what other people do determine how to react in each individual instance was a bad thing, while I think it's a good thing. Surely that explains everything, doesn't it? ;)

And what has been said, in short: a history (memory) - or the absence of it.

Yes, me, I saw a jest, but I do not know you - I haven't read that many posts of you - we have no history. When there's no history words will be taken differently compared to the situation where people have seen the other debating and arguying for quite some time.

When opinions are formed, words are weighed within those opinions.

Apparently your good intentions, just teasing, were not interpreted as such; IMHO WHO's-saying-it usually seems to be of more significance than WHAT's-being-said.

Being known usually is an advantage though; I mean, I'm quite aware somebody here may say to me: WTF are you to tell me/us etc… Or maybe the thing I'm trying to tell doesn't make sense to anyone so it'll be just, a very short: WTF are you? ;)

Hi Omega, good to see you posting here again. Guys (and Gals) let's not get caught up in bashing one or the other platform; it's childish- we're supposed to be mature adults here. That having been said, here's my favourite 'Mac' joke. A man walks into a computer store and asks the sales clerk "Can I get a mouse pad for my Mac?" The salesman thinks for a moment and replies "Yes, that seems like a fair trade!!" :)

Back in the days, Macs used to have a far better OS, were more reliable and had the best customer service. They were expensive, yes, but you got what you payed for.

Now, Macs are made from much the parts as PCs, but less customisable. Windows 7 is probably the best OS around. Customer service depends on who you buy your PC from. Macs are still expensive though, and at the end of the day, there is a lot less software available for them, and what is available is often not made available until much later than for a Windows based machine.

I used to use and love Macs. Now, I wouldn't even consider buying one. I do love my iPod, though.

Oh, well then we just disagree. I like to *TRY* to look at each poster as an individual, and each post with as fresh a set of eyes as I can. Some posters make that very difficult and I'm fully aware that I'm personally one such poster for several people at several forums.

But I still think it's wrong not to keep an open mind, because if you let your uninformed opinions guide you - you will never get close to the truth.

That said, I'm guilty of this myself. Some posters have managed to demonstrate a style that I can't accept - so they're on ignore. But I don't think of them as bad people or people I can't stand - because I just don't know them. They simply have an "online persona" that I don't wish to interact with.

We have close to zero information about each other here - because we've never met. I express myself in a certain way that apparently makes me appear very arrogant and "too idealistic" - but I know enough about myself to say that's entirely bullshit. I'm probably stubborn (ok, I AM stubborn) and I have a lot of faith in my opinions, but I don't ever consider myself "superior" just because I think I'm right in many cases. I'm also flawed as hell, as are we all.

But, it's not my priority to be loved by strangers. If I wanted to be liked, I'd have to hold back and "adjust" my opinions to make them more digestable. That's not my thing. Even so, I prefer to be liked by people who know enough about me to actually have an informed opinion.

Yep - but still no actions or anything verifiably real. Just words.

Indeed. Most people stick to their first impression and many don't want to go through the effort to actually read when it would only confuse the label placed on others. It's human to place others in boxes according to whatever information we have of them - even if it's only a single sentence taken out of context. There's a box for them all.

Putting someone in a box like that is EASY - pulling them out is HARD.

Again, I'm flawed in this way as well - no doubt about that. But at least I recognize that it's a flaw.

Yep, and that's what I'm saying is not a sound approach without the ability to remain open-minded.

I wouldn't necessarily call them good intentions. It was just a joke - good or bad. I like teasing, and I really have no idea if that's good or bad. But I don't think there's anything wrong with it - really.

It's an advantage as well for me, but I'm not known here - and neither is any of us. We present ourselves as we do - but there's no way to get the whole picture.

I recognize that I can't be known - and therefore, any opinion formed about me - good or bad - will be based on severely lacking information. As such, it's not anything like the truth - and I don't care for such things.

It's my own responsibility to present myself as I want to be presented. That's why I don't complain about it. Only when it goes beyond what I think is reasonable - and this was one such case.

I think it's unfortunate that people think of me as they often do, but again, I have to accept that it's what they think. If I could find a way to be more "presentable" and yet express my honest opinions as clearly as I think I should - I'd definitely make an effort. But I haven't figured out how to do that.

Thanks Corwin, nice of you to say that.

Agreed. Seems we do not disagree. Perhaps - probably - I misunderstood. I emphasized the 'what' in that sentence of yours; what do other people do? I.e. what (what's being said?) being opposed to who (who's saying it?) or how.
Mistakes are often made when seeing the (wo)man before seeing the message. Pity. And that's what happened in this thread, I think. Anyway, I guessed one would have to know you to understand the fuss about those two oneliners of you. :)
O, I have no problem with people that are arrogant or consider themselves superior (it can be quite sexy I think) - as long as it is justified. Alas, usually it's just a mask to hide a feeling of inferiority.
Ah! My fave subject. ;) Who's able to get the whole picture? No one, not here, not IRL, not your mum/dad, friend, spouse/partner. Not even you. No way to get the whole picture. The exterior doesn't know the entire interior (and can't be told without getting a coloured perspective from the interior), the interior can not see the perspective from the (entire) exterior.
Something I learned once in a discussion about quantum mechanics. Giggle.
By the time you've figured it out you'll think it's not important. ;)

If the computer's mouse has only one mouse button, then it tells me enough of the whole OS. OS for stoopids. :p

At least that made the 'apple' key far more useful than the utterly pointless windows key which's sole purpose seems to be driving mad whenever I accidentally press it (especially within games that had no foresight to disable it)
+ now Mac mice have two buttons and some sort of a scrollball anyway (because they're mighty!) ;)

Which is kind of funny considering that they apparently used the single button mouse in the first place so that the transition to touchscreen would be smoother - and now that touchscreens start gaining appeal they decided to add the second button!

When I said "the whole picture" I didn't mean literally every single detail and every action ever taken, and every word ever said.

I meant you can't know the essence of what's necessary to have an informed opinion. Whether or not that's possible in real life would probably depend on similar things, as in an open mind and the ability to express yourself honestly. But we certainly agree that you can never really know ANYONE, not even yourself. All you can do is try to look at things just as they are, rather than what you wish them to be. Certainly, that's my own personal approach about everything.

I'm afraid that I do express myself honestly, here and in real life, which means that what you DO hear me saying is very much a part of who I am. So that doesn't bode well for my online persona, since DArtagnan is obviously not the most appreciated person around.

But that's what it is.

Anyway, it seems we essentially agree.

The first time I saw a Mac (I was with a computer retailer) I was absolutely convinced that PCs had no chance of surviving as a commercial product. I am still convinced that if Apple hadn't insisted on such strict proprietary policies, that PC's beyond the AT (8088, 8086 processor), wouldn't have been made at all. Of course much has changed since 1982. :lol: Anyone remember taking a class on DOS? haha

And hey! I"m happy for the Mac folks getting everything the PC users get, cause it will give me more choices in the future, and that's always a good thing.

I used to teach classes on DOS, now I have a hard time keeping up with what Window$ is doing!! :)

Thank you for proving my point

OK, that's enough. Disappointing the mere mention of a Mac version has people calling each other stupid. This thread has run its course.