Fair enough. Given your tastes, why would you buy any BioWare game?

Still waiting for official confirmation on average playing time - if it is indeed only 15 hrs then at $40 that's exploitative in my book (given the existing engine & all the assets/tools they already have in place)…and if people flock to buy it at that inflated price (which is the impression I get from posts here and elsewhere), that will set a new standard overpriced DLC/extra content. This already seems to be happening, based on the dlc they have released. While the bargain bin is an option, if something is inherently overpriced, the scaled down version will be overpriced too, in my experience. And please refrain from the 'you don't have to buy it' comments - that's self-evident. But I want to pay fair value for something, not the maximum amount that some bean counter at EA has decided the market will tolerate (because they're addicts ;-)

Of course, if it is actually 25+ hrs (excluding the origin which you may not need/want), and fully voiced, then $40 is justified.

So he can claim that they all suck and that Bethsoft rules? Perhaps be like the guy on the Larian boards and declare that they aren't even RPG's? Oh wait, he did that here last week :D

Maybe he gave it a shot all the same, and that he has different tastes is ok?

I have no problem with that … but I have seen on many forums a penchant of some to get / play something just to prove a preconceived notion of hating it and then come in and piss all over it. That is also fine, but it seems like a waste of time. If you hate flight sims, why spend $50 and go to a flight-sim centric site to declare that it sucks?

Nope, I thoroughly enjoyed most of Dragon Age. I just don't like the forced companions. If the game would allow a choice between companions and rolled henchmen, that'd be ideal. I loved the magic system, the Fade, the origin stories, etc. I just got bored before Landsmeet. I was 20th level by then, so I got my money's worth out of the game. I just don't want to play a 15 hour game that has several new companions. That would almost necessitate spending half the time getting to know the new people. I also enjoyed Baldur's Gate I, but not so much II. I'm a big Bioware fan, though I haven't played Mass Effect. I really need to look into games that allow you to play through as a sniper because I loved that aspect in Deus Ex and Fallout 3. I play through the whole game sneaking and sniping. I had to download a mod that made it tougher to sneak though. In vanilla Fallout, if you have a sneak skill of 60 almost nothing detects you. Anybody play Bioshock or Mass Effect, and is sniping and sneaking a viable play option? Can you solo?

By the way, anybody paying attention to the Dragon Age posts would notice that I've posted several times in those threads and almost invariably in a positive manner. Even the games I don't enjoy, I truly wish that I did. I bought all the Gothics and wish that I could have enjoyed them, they just didn't do it for me. I just can't get into games very often where I can't pick the type of person I'm going to be. Deus Ex was again an exception, so was System Shock II.

I should point out that I did the questlines for Shale, Morrigan, Leliana, Alistair, and Dog. Oh, and Shemp the Qunari. I just found them silly and not something that somebody trying to halt a war would ever stop to do. Note, that I think the companions in F3 are atrocious too. Fortunately, you don't need to take them along all the time. I'll occasionally take Fawkes or Dogmeat on a trip, but mostly they chill out in Megaton. I'm really hoping Fallout IV or TES V steal the origins idea and allow you to start from multiple locations/situations. Very cool idea and long overdue.

Personally, I've never witnessed someone buying a game just so he could piss all over it.

I've witnessed people who seem to be negative towards a certain game based on a predisposition against those who made it, or other things that I don't agree with.

I tend to be sceptical based on such things - but I try to stay open-minded, which is why I gave something like Fallout 3 a fair shot, and I think it's ok all things considered.

But in the end, I've found that trying to understand or confronting such opinions NEVER result in anything good, and I firmly believe people have a right to piss all over anything they want - as long as they do no actual harm or insult anyone in the process.

Certainly, I've witnessed people taking such things personally, even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with them on such a level.

People hate Bioware? That's fine. Maybe they don't actually hate them, but what they think they're doing to the industry. I can sympathise - though I don't really share such a powerful opposition.

I understand the irritation when faced with negativity over and over, and if I saw something good come from confronting it - I'd agree it might be a good idea. But all it ever does is start the perpetual cycle of negativity and negative responses to that.

However, that's just my opinion and I'll leave it to you :)

I can only speak for Bioshock since I haven't played ME yet. Bioshock doesn't have companions so you can solo all you like ;) . As for sneaking and sniping that's a negative for Bioshock. The game is more centered around using your plasmids (mostly elemental powers that aren't exactly of the sneaky type) and the game environment to your advantage (e.g. by hacking gun turrets so they shoot at your enemies). There might have been a scoped weapon (can't really remember) and maybe a few parts where it made sense not to rush into an area guns blazing but overall there is no sneaking/sniping worth mentioning in Bioshock.

Thanks for such an even and thoughtful reply … glad you saw I was just teasing around! :)

Sadly I have … but mostly on the PSP, really, where the library of good releases is much smaller. People say 'I hate strategy-RPG games', then buy Disgaea, then piss all over it for being exactly what it is. Sad, really. But as you say, that is THEIR issue.

Except that Disgaea is far from a strategy RPG… it's more like a leveling RPG. The only real strategy is grinding a lot. My ideal strategy RPG would be like King's Bounty, HoMM or the best would be the little known Gladius (PS2/Xbox)

Expansions ? For me a reason to wait until a "Gold" version, which collects all of them, comes out.

Splitting hairs … things like Disgaea, Jeanne D'Arc, Final Fantasy Tactics and so on get grouped under that heading … so regardless of what you call it, if you know what to expect, know you won't like it, buy it anyway … well …

I agree. I would've prefered Curly the Qunari.

nyuk nyuk.

What's a Qunari ?

Google points to this thread when I use this phrase :

;)

It wasn't an attack - it was a genuine question - and of course it's OK. I know (or at least, it's my impression) crpgnut doesn't really care about story and prefers emergent gameplay systems, he regularly criticises small gameplay areas and just said "I always just hate companions".

Given that is exactly BioWare's formula - story, companions, small areas and absolutely no emergent or simulation systems - I wondered why he'd even bother picking up a Bio title.

The answer, it seems, is that he doesn't hate these elements as much as was communicated to me via his posts and still enjoyed DA. Question answered.

Actually, I do hate those elements but DAO aced character creation, skill systems, interesting areas (which I didn't think were small at all), and other factors such as nice setttings and such. I mean I really enjoyed the werewolf lair, Denerim, the forest, and thought they were perfectly sized. Bioware nails production values so well, I always enjoy the polish. Bethesda's quest writing is still pretty hit and miss. Neither developer can write a main quest worth a darn, but Bios subquests are generally better thought out than Bethesda's. Of course, Bethesda's worldbuilding is lightyears ahead of Bioware's. Bethesda had some good writing in Fallout 3, but there is some major room for improvement.

For the record, I own two copies of Dragon Age versus only one of Fallout 3. I think I might have 3 copies of Oblivion though, so maybe it evens out. This wouldn't sound too bad unless you realize I don't own a console, nor do I have any other family members that game :)

Favorite game of all time is still probably Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra followed closely by Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor. NWC for the win!

Can certainly see your viewpoints there! While I did really like the companions in dragon age (particularly Shale's conversations) and found that they sometimes encouraged me to experiment with different builds (particularly wynne & morrigan with skills I wouldn't have loaded up on myself) I did thoroughly enjoy the old M&M full party games.

The only real problem I had with DA:O was their move away from D&D - as they just don't know how to emulate the strengths of such a system.

The rest was good to great - and the game itself definitely the best they've done since KOTOR.

I hugely preferred it to the D&D system myself . . .

Some info about the expansion:

- Takes place several months after DAO
- New enemies like smarter, talking Darkspawn and your new nemesis "The Architect"
- You can start a new character (Orlesian Commander) and see his mini-origin story or import your a character from DAO
- New level cap will probably be in the mid to high 30s.
- There is one returning party member from DAO and several new ones
- New respec tome that will refund all of your stat and skill points
- It is a traditional retail expansion but it will be available for download as well

http://pc.ign.com/articles/105/1058656p1.html