Dragon Age 2 - Improved Graphics in the Sequel
 

You didn't know Dragon Age 2 was confirmed, did you? It's not surprising, though, and even less surprising that the graphics would be improved. Still, Greg Zeschuk wants to make that point. From Joystiq:
More information.

"gawd awful graphics" … are you KIDDING me? All these graphix-ho kiddies need to get a grip.

Sheesh… can't say I'm a fan of DA but I certainly thought the graphics were good. Luckily they will be bounded by the aging 360 so it can't be that bad. Longer loads due to higher res textures and LOD I suppose. I really need to finish DA, I payed for the ultimate edition….

Er…. what sequel isn't normally going to have improved graphics?

Yeah, it's normal to improve graphics in a sequel.
And although the graphics of DA weren't bad at all they could have been a hell of a lot better, especially the environment and some spells.

I agree about the environments, they are really bland sometimes in the game. For instance, I thought the deep roads were really boring visually. But then again the graphics are far down on my priority list when it comes to rpgs so it really didn't matter that much.

Why not focus resources on a more open world instead?

Most Bioware fans doesnt even know what that is (well ok, a few who played Baldur's Gate might know what open world and "real time" weather changes and day/night cycles is ;) ), so i doubt Bioware would bother. Bioware wants to make it easy for themselves. An open world means a _lot_ more testing for bugs, exploits etc.

More open world on a console? Even Oblivion managed to only give an illusion of that (which was more than enough for console gamers to crown it GOTY).

Dragon Age "cities" were laughably small. What made it worse was that I had only recently played Planescape Torment and sitting through DA was a step backward.

What do you mean with "illusion"? Cities had to load, but compared to any Bioware game it felt really open.

And compared to any Bioware game it felt really boring. A open world is nice but I'd rather have a story driven game like DA than an empty world like seen in Oblivion. And what defines open by the way? A huge world without loading screens ala Gothic/Risen? A huge world with loading screens like in Morrowind? A game with a world map like DA or BA or NWN2? A world map you can travel on like Strom of Zehir?

Open-world isn't the holy grail of RPG gaming. I like both kinds, so I certainly don't want ALL my games like that. But it's entirely possible on consoles. Name me one PC only game that did it better than a console would.

The graphics in Da:o could have been better, I agree. Looking at Mass Effect 2, I miss the detailed NPC faces and slick design. They aren't that bad, though. But I do get this distinct feeling that I'm looking at Neverwinter Nights 2 sometimes.

I don't think any of Bethesda's games are as boring as Bioware games which are mainly built upon (imo, boring) b-dialogue and b-characters. I guess it depends on what you're after, i play because i love exploring and interacting with the world (the player should be able to swim, dive, climb, pick up basicly every object) + the game should feel like its a living world (Bioware fails big time here). Its the main reason i love Bethesda's games (and i practically hate all Bioware games).

The way i see it, games are competing with entertainment such as books and movies, and those mediums just do an incredible much better job in delivering story, dialogue/characters than any Bioware ever could do, in comarison they deliver a boring and linear b-movie experience with a few choices that most of the time doesnt really matter (especially if you just play through the game once anyways).

Exploring and interacting with the world though is something books and movies cant give me, so there's where games comes into the picture and, mostly, why i play them to give me a very different experience.

Morrowind has less loading screens than Oblivion, so i dont know what your talking about. Morrowind even had open cities whilst Oblivion has to load all the citites (if you dont use the mod "open cities").

The defenintion of "open world", to me is a game that doesnt load games into levels, where there's a lot of backtracking, where you can swim, climb etc.. I prefer when I, the player, and my interactions and adventures in the game is the "story", not when the developer holds my hand thoughout the whole experinece saying "oh, now we are going to show you this spectacular view when you cross the bridge over here".. too boring, too linear and too much like a movie (only with worse effects/photo/characters/dialogue/story)..

Don't dare say that DA is a step backwards compared to an older Bioware game, that might get you flamed around here. ;) jk

i thought the graphics were awesome, certainly nothing to complain about!

I think DA´s interior graphics and even art direction were uniformly really good, however most of the exteriors were rather lacking in these regards which resulted in outdoor areas´ atmosphere being indistinctive and the whole experience visually a bit inconsistent.

Well, DA´s cities were sufficient imo in the overall context of the game, with one, admittedly quite important, exception being Denerim - its scope felt really inadequately small.
Bringing Torment to discussion is really unfair however - Sigil is easily the most interesting city ever conceived in a cRPP, yes, but almost the whole game plays in there and even Torment´s own other locations felt inadequate in comparison (Curst, Baator).
And frankly, after I´ve I finished Torment, every game felt like a step backwards to me for a while.

Well at least they understand the complaints of there customers, its the gawd awful graphics that made me stop playing DA…. The fact that it wont load the dwarfven city and the memory leak wouldn't let me leave Redcliffs shop causing me to reset my pc six times are mere coincidence so this gives me for the squeal and future DLC witch they happily keep producing without patching the fucking game… >:(

A new patch is being worked on, says Fernando Melo:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to…ex/841470&lf=8
The graphics, I've seen looks OK to me. From what I've read it seems to be the combat system that needs fixing, not making the graphics 'look super-hot'.

I think they're more talking about the graphics on the consoles than on the PC. I've heared some pretty bad stories about the graphics on them.

But still, they could up the outdoor and city enviroments a lot more. Take a look at Drakensang for example, its outdoor and city enviroments are vastly superior.

In that case we can agree to disagree. ;-)

I actually find games with a huge open world and nothing (or to little) in it far more boring than the b-characters, b-story games you criticize. That does not mean that I can'T stand exploring just that I don't like playing games like Morrwind or Oblivion because they are too empty for me. Yes you have hughe cities with dozens or hundreds of npcs but I'd rather have ten npcs with dialog an text than a hundred with out anything meaningful to say (and only a few with stories of their own).

Actually you can translate that to: I like Risen/Gothic, Mass Effect and NWN but not Morrowind (and similar games). :-)

Fix the damn story, not graphic!

I thought the story was great, just finished it today and it was the best rpg I've played in quite some time I must say. The fighting got a bit boring towards the end, but it was the story that kept me going.

I have heard some issues as well … but nothing that would rate as 'gawd awful'.

I'd like some more atmosphere, please. More ambiance both in sound and setting. DA was made in such a way that you were pushed forward relentlessly, there was neither the time to just take everything in, nor was there an incentive to do so. Everything seemed to have a story related purpose or was only made for combat … I'm one of those people who happened to like the free roaming areas in BG for instance, with a strong focus on ambient sounds. Or even something as simple as footsteps. While DA did have different running sounds for different armor types (leather, chain), footsteps sounded the same no matter where you were running on. Stone, grass, soft soil, wood … no difference. Stuff like that made the world feel flatter than BG, which is kind of ironic.

Basically I'd like to see more things that aren't completely streamlined.

I'm quite sure that's not gonna happen.After DA's success Bioware don't have any reason something like this.

Not only that, what incentive do OTHER companies have to create something outside of the Dragon Age or Oblivion molds?

:end:

. . .

My small glimmer of hope is that some always do.

I prefer story driven games rather than open "empty" world games. 12 years ago, I was playing M&M style games (less story, more same endless killing, same landscape and such) day and night like a maniac, but not anymore. I want diversity. Yes, Dragon Age is a little linear, but offers lots of choosing. And I think it's the worthy successor of BG.

As for the graphics, I must admit I was a little dissappointed when I first opened DA. I had expected Mass Effect quality. Low textures, but the game makes up that with nice animations.

I felt DA suffered from what a lot of games released on PC and Consoles do, that is many smaller environments rather than larger open areas. ( I havent' seen Fallout 3 or Oblivion on a console so I don't know how they handle the large view distances and open areas). I don't know if developers do this for consoles because the machines memory cannot hold a large area or because console customers like it that way.

I know I hate loading screens so always prefer a single large city compared to a number of parts. Denerim was one of the worst examples of this, it doesn't feel like the capital of Ferelden at all. More like some dusty little town. I am trying to think of a large scale city that felt like a city…The Daggerfall cities felt large and the Morrowind city felt large mainly because they did a good job of covering the compartmentalisation of the areas.

The recent Bioware cities all suffer from this chopped up feel. I think I first noticed it in KOTOR and ever since. The cities feel like a string of areas and not a city at all.

Dragon Age could definitely do with a face lift outdoors. It is possible to be looking out on a bare polygon hill or one with a couple of trees.

Still I don't mind the Bioware games for this as it is the story that drags you a long. I defintely play the Bioware games differently from the Bethesda games. In Bioware ones it is all about advancing the story to see what comes next. In Bethesda ones I rarely do what I am told and just wander off to have my own adventure - see what is over the next rise, in the next village or in that tomb. I like both styles depending what mood I am in.

The graphics aren't too bad in DA but they aren't real good, either. A big Direct-X 11 facelift would be great stuff.

Yeah, I think it's mostly pathic console memory (roughly 256mb) that keeps the areas small. It's probably also behind the tendancy for people to all have look-alike bodies with different heads plopped on top. There's also load time considerations.

I'd say forget about better graphic but more story plz. I tire of endless, pointless battles without much story progression atm.

+1

I also thought the graphics were great. Actually, I thought they were better than just great. In some places I would just walk around and admire the scenery. My only complaint was that there was not as much scenery to admire. The areas were too small.

The graphics were not as good as Oblivion or Fallout 3, but who cares? The game is a mix of a lot of things that were done right like the story, length, gameplay, graphics and even the characters (though they can be improved a bit). All of that mixed together made for one grea ride. Who gives a rat's behind if DirectX 11 could shiny it up a bit. It was plenty shiny to start with. :)

They can update the graphics all they want , it will still remain and hand holding , small ,boring , party based , linear , quest driven , empty game.
I imagine that in the sequel you will spend 80% of the time speaking to your sociopath companions , micromanage combat of the "fail to do the obvious" AI and reloading so the dragon can chew you again.

I prefer to wait 10 more years for the next elder scrolls than to play any BW game.

Some of the external areas were a bit ho-hum but the internal areas looked fantastic - no graphics improvements are needed for me.

As for why the areas were small, I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree with the console accusations. Leaving aside that DA was in development for PC-only for a long time (let's assume they were lying), open world games are extremely common on consoles. It's almost hard to buy anything else. I'm not exactly a console expert but Infamous, Assassins Creed 1/2, Saints Row 1/2, the GTAs, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Protoype, Crackdown, various driving games…I'm sure someone who actually has experience can give a long list. Assassins Creed 2 has a large world, climbing, swimming and impressive NPC densities and works nicely on consoles.

I'd suggest it's a design choice. BioWare likes to streamline their games (I don't necessarily mean that in a "dumbed down" way) - think Baldur's Gate, "dead" exploration areas --> BG2, no "dead" areas. They have a certain amount of content planned, they never use world simulation elements (no real schedules, NPCs doing tasks or the like) and obviously it makes it easier technically, including for the mod support DA has, so they choose small areas.

Hmm, good ideas I'll think about this for T:MoF.

Neither. It's not a console thing; it's a Bioware thing. Fallout 3, for example, had a wide-open landscape, great draw distance, and a distant horizon. The linearity and "small chunk" approach of DA has to do with the way Bioware likes to construct their games, not with console memory limitations (which are real, but just not the explanation here).

That is more what I am saying - I fear that the focus will shift towards providing more eye-candy compared to better overall RPG experience.

Yeah, I agree.

Bioware definitely needs to turn down the endless filler combat. I'd say cut fights in half, and it'll be fine.

Beyond that, I'd like them to take a look at class diversity - especially for rogues. Basically, there are too few classes and not enough ways to diversify them. I'm not talking about "specialisations", unless they genuinely change the way you approach your class.

I think that visually what the game needed most was a face generator that didn't make humans look like lummoxes, make some bloody decent looking presets for a change.

Also what was up with the weapons hovering 2 feet away from your back? Magic instead of sheathes?

This sounds almost to me as if the "Blizzard phenomernon" will happen again … Loads of clones …. for decades …

Which might be a hint towards the luxury gamers are used to nowadays … Pure luxury … Then even the smallest stain might become a giant … distraction.