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March 17th, 2011, 15:09
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
You said "you're seemingly oblivious to how mainstream it seems to have become". I see the same ancient engine, with no bling and no ingame music and no voiceacting. I see the same story-centric, long, turn-based RPG he has always done. There is really nothing mainstream about it.
Yes, he too thinks about how he can make games attractive to more players, and has made some changes to his formula that one can dislike (but he was lambasted for sticking so closely to his formula previously). But to call the result "mainstream" is, sorry, just laughable.
This from Mike's review:

In that way it is much like Dragon Age 2 and I can see the basic appeal: rather than agonizing over setting up a character or party before getting started, these games allow you to simply choose a path and wade into the game immediately.

Vogel has been vocal about wanting to get people engaged in the game quickly and easily without losing depth, and with Avadon I feel he struck the perfect balance.

In most role-playing games you get some amount of personality defined for the main character either prescriptively or through dialogue. You also will get the main characters you interact with described and fleshed out. Seldom does it go much further the only time most games give a characters a personality is if you need to interact, and even then all you get is the minimum requirement. That has never been true for Spiderweb games Vogel has always meticulously described a wide array of characters at all levels in the game.

One thing missing from the overall development is a diplomacy path. In the Geneforge games, which were single player focused, you could become a very charismatic leader and use your skills to influence outcomes of just about every situation.

This from some disgruntled player, and I honestly don't know if it's true - but it seems to be from comments on the Watch:

regenerating health and MP, auto-revival after fights, no stats or skills unlocking special dialogue options, quests markers, less classes, less difficult (Vogel stating that no one should die on normal difficulty)


I might have worded it badly, as the game is obviously not mainstream in the traditional sense of being targeted at the mainstream audience.

I'm talking about taking something and streamlining it - making it simpler and more accessible. Since we're talking about an indie game, I feel it's very appropriate to call it a "mainstream indie" - as in appealing to the largest audience within that circle.

The end result might not be a "mainstream" game, but the direction certainly seems to be.

Again - it depends on personal preference whether that's good or bad, and Mike obviously thinks it's mostly good.

If you think my claim is "laughable" - then you obviously disagree.

Once I get to play it, I'll return with my final judgment - and I'll apologize if it's not true.

For now, it seems some of you are being overly forgiving, and you seem to be very unwilling to see what's right in front of you.

Then again, you're all pretty forgiving people in general in terms of gaming. Mike, Dhruin, and Ghari are all pretty lowkey slack-cutting people - so it seems to fit your profile




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