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December 9th, 2012, 10:59
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
This is true and extremely important - whatever we are discussing now is different than last year and next year.

And honestly, I don't think we disagree as much as you think we do.
Probably not, but still - it really does seem like you don't think Apple products are overpriced - or you're simply shrugging it off as irrelevant.

When I say overpriced, that's based on what the parts involved cost - and what you get in terms of performance and technical capability.

As for aesthetics and design - obviously, that's not something we can measure or objectively quantify.

I will concede that build quality in Apple products is superior - and I'm very happy with mine.

But since I don't resell things and I don't keep outdated stuff - that's irrelevant to me. For people who like to play the market or people who like to hold on to outdated stuff for years, there's a potential justification for some of the price.

That said, I'm still not buying that as the "real reason" some people support Apple and how they conduct themselves - and their pricing models. I think it's a desperate attempt at justifying their addiction to consumerism.

I can be guilty of that myself - but at least I can admit it

Note that I'm not talking about you, as you seem at least partially capable of admitting your rather excessive need to buy superfluous things - though you always manage to come up with some kind of "need" you want filled. Though you want an iPhone next to your S3 now? …

I can only go on my own experience … and as someone who has owned short-lifecycle products (i.e. laptops, PDAs, and now smartphones and tablets) almost exclusively for ages (sold off my last desktop in 1997) I have done more than my fair share of selling devices from pretty much every maker out there. Bottom line - you will get a >50% better return on your investment on an Apple computer than anything else.
Maybe that's a cultural thing, I don't know. That's not the pattern I'm seeing around here. Then again, Apple isn't quite as popular - and for whatever reason, Samsung in particular is especially popular.

My problem is the word 'significant' … as a statistician it means one thing (which I agree with), but in common vernacular it tends to mean 'exorbitant'. That is part of the old and debunked 'I could build a more powerful computer for half the price with all the same components'. Um, no. Apple has the #1 quality rating, #1 service, #1 resale value for a REASON. They spend money on components that others will not.
Again, I'm not talking about "quality rating" or "resale value" - and even if they're that much easier to sell, it's going to change eventually. If so, will their prices drop?

And honestly, based on my usage - I call the iPad my 90% computer for a reason - I find the value to be tremendous for the price. There are so many ways in which the Android OS is simply 'not ready for tablet prime time' … and my bank account knows how I have tried …
That's your personal perception that doesn't reflect the reality I'm living in. I don't know a SINGLE person (and I know quite a few people) with their tablet (iPad or otherwise) as their 90% computer. Not a single person. I'm not sure I've even met someone with their tablet as their 50% computer.

BUT … I will definitely say that Apple has veered into 'significant' over-pricing territory this year in three ways:
- iPod Touch should have been $100 cheaper.
- iPad Mini should have been $249 - 279 for the base unit (but even at $329 it is the best small tablet I've ever touched)
- the $100 memory bump price is just out of control greedy … everyone else moved to $50, heck even $75 would have been better.
Agreed, and I only bought the Mini because it WAS the best tablet available when you consider software availability. But I'm not really big on build quality. Obviously, I want my gadget to last the 2-3 years I intend to use it - but I don't drop these things and I don't abuse them physically

Samsung *phones* since 2011 have been well built and popular, and my Galaxy SIII could get great resale value (as opposed to the S2 which I despised, the S3 is really good - but I also hated the Galaxy Note 2, that went back today). Samsung tablets have sold like garbage, and therefore at resale they get a much lower % of their retail … I mean, why pay the $499 the Galaxy Tab 7.7 wanted when the Nexus 7 is $199?
You despised S2, yeah, but it was voted the best phone in several places. The Nexus 7 is recent - and I'm willing to bet that if it catches on (which it seems to be doing) - then you'll see similar resale value. There's a reason Apple went against Steve Jobs and released their iPad Mini.

No, this isn't about bias - I am not saying Apple products are 'better'. These facts are not in dispute: Apple IS the #1 rated brand for quality, service and customer loyalty.
Those "facts" are not what I'm calling bias on. But that's not something we want to get into here

This has a long history of being true, which has led to a history of used Apple computers selling for a greater % of original value than PCs. That is something most reasonable people would not argue.
I'm not arguing that a lot of people don't mind paying more for things than they're actually worth - but I'm not talking about computers as such. Apple can't compete with PCs on software (gaming in particular) - and their hardware is ridiculously overpriced - but I can't change that a lot of people want to buy them anyway. I used to accept it was about accessibility - but after Windows 7, that's all but an illusion. What remains is a very pleasant aesthetic design and "build quality".

As for how that translates in the current smartphone/tablet market … as you say the market is volatile and fast-moving, so assessing a fixed opinion is a dangerous thing. All I can go on is that over the past few years I have sold off several Apple products and also several from Motorola, HP/Palm, HTC, Samsung, ASUS, Acer and LG. And in *every* case the 'retained value' of the Apple products was higher. And in most cases … MUCH higher.
Unfortunately, your personal experience is not worth much when arguing against facts - which we don't seem to have here. I don't have the numbers available - so I really don't know whether resale of Samsung phones or tablets are that much lower, or resale of Nexus 7 will be that much lower. I can't see why they would, but until we have real numbers - I'm going to be sceptical. Certainly, I don't think the resale value will compensate for the significant overpricing.
Last edited by DArtagnan; December 9th, 2012 at 11:14.




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