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February 8th, 2013, 20:33
Originally Posted by Menigal View Post
Too many old games had an almost Gygaxian desire to kill, and there have been quite a few discussions on how many old game designers used to brag that no one finished their games. I still can't believe anyone thought that was a good thing.
And a lot of it was false difficulty. It was not down to player skill, but rather from time to time the games would throw a deathtrap or similar frustrating thing your way, which you had no real way of predicting or doing anything about. Sometimes it was something that you, through trial and error could learn about, sometimes it was just a random "Big monster appears and pummels your party into oblivion". When we get into the 90's, such things become a lot rarer, though they don't disappear entirely (Beholders in BG2 had an instant death spell for an example).

Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Well rogue and its ilk were designed for you to die, fail, replay many times before winning based very much on luck. It's certainly a design style. Not my favorite.
But rogue and its likes are design around this in an entirely different way, and you don't have to go through the same level(s) time and time again, due to their random nature. I much prefer roguelikes that give the player more control over their character, and thus allows you to effectively counter many of the dangers of the dungeon through player skill & forethought rather than luck though.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
In that way, I - as an enthusiast - can't really blame the developers or the audience. I can just lament that there aren't more who're passionate enough to look beyond numbers - and who might want to INSPIRE enthusiasm in the larger audience.
There are still a handful of more "harcore" releases each year, though usually these are indies. And look at Daemon's souls, the very fact that it was demanding for the player was what made it popular. To my knowledge it don't compete with the biggest of the biggest in terms of sales, but due to it finding an underexploited niche, it was able to do quite well. It is the same reason why Paradox have been doing so well, they found an underexploited niche in the strategy game market and filled it.
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