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March 2nd, 2008, 14:29
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Can't say I've had that pleasure.
No, it doesn't -- and the fact that you read it that way goes pretty far to prove my point that you stretch the hell out of everything anyone says with "immersion" and "RPG" in it.
It's all me? It's not like the previewer literally said "you really don't have to be a passionate RPG player (…) to get immersed in the virtual world of Mass Effect"? It's not like that's actually putting up immersion as a separate value that's implied to be primary to that of "being a passionate RPG player", e.g. the RPG experience.

Methinks it might be too easy to just try and blame the messenger in this case.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
But doesn't all of this fall under the "bleedin' obvious" department? Kinetic-physical immersiveness is a property, not a game.
Oh really? You tell a lot of the mainstream gaming media that.

Thing is, you're trying to make this about your personal viewpoints on immersion. But I don't care about your personal viewpoints on immersion, I was talking - originally - about the way the term has become tainted to mean something it shouldn't. Your viewpoints are well and good, but they don't represent the common discourse and as such aren't really relevant to what I was saying.

Odd that I only just realised that. The hell we've been talking about, then?

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Here you're not only saying it's useless -- you're actually saying that it doesn't even exist!
It's funny how you accuse me of getting emotional and twisting your words and then turn around and do much the same thing. Hey, here's a tip: stop telling me what I'm saying.
For clarity, here's what I actually said:
- I don't experience it. I never denied it exists, just that I don't experience it
- From later postings, you should've been able to figure out that in "I can't see the use of having a physical/kinetic sensation of being in the game with having a feeling of involvement", with should actually read without. I do that all the time, as I bet you've noticed, type over half words like that. I clarified it in later posts, though, so I'm not sure why it'd still confuse you.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
yet you've still been reading all kinds of stuff into my statements
Hey, kettle, you're a nigger.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
such as an assumption of technological inferiority, or a wish to see this become a dominant paradigm
Both those things were directly drawn from your own analogy. You're blaming me for your bad choice of analogy? Hey, I think the straws are breaking.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
so in the future I'll simply ignore what you have to say on the topic.
Again? You're just narrowing down how much we can talk about further and further.

I'd just do some breathing exercises or something, because ignoring things just because they annoy you is about as intellectual an exercise as masturbation. Hell, it is mental masturbation!

But then again, I'm beginning to note more and more that you tend to instantly draw any discussion into some kind of meta-psychological narrative about my tendencies to do this or that, my anger, my passion. I'm sorry, but while it's not insulting in the least, it's still an ad hominem. If you insist on lowering any discussion to base ad hominems, and you're three-out-of-three so far on any time you've talked to me, then it's pretty much me who has to give up on you. Because I don't care about internet debates to go for that kind of tedious slug-o-war, it's about as intellectually stimulating as smoking a pipe (an example I choose because pipe-smoking has the same thin veneer of fake intellectualism as those kind of internet debates).

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Final edit: as stated, I'm starting to get angry at you again, so I'll join Squeek in getting off this thread. Consider this a "win" if it makes you feel better.
Please don't project your own personality on me, I couldn't give a damn less about who wins what, I'm here for the intellectual sport. Other than on the Bethesda forums, I haven't had an internet debate in which I've gone for the win in years. I've outgrown that approach.

Also, to quote Bookworm: No, don't leave me!

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