Eschalon: Book II - Peek # 2 @ RPG Vault

Its actually getting alot of interest because it has more exposure on steam....awesome to see. I'm a huge basilisk supporter(even if some mods here have not bought the game) Here is to hoping this really pays off, because it will make sales of book 2 even better.

Awesome to see.

Been playing the demo all afternoon with a ranger--yes, all of you, you're right. When I get my allowance, this is up first--download and everything.

Of course, they may intend to bring out a collection--that would be twice as good, but I don't think I can wait.

Why play as a ranger, when you can play as a MAGE!!

I can't tell you how happy I am to see the game getting a second look|(or first) due to it being on steam. This will make Thomas have that much more faith in the future of the games....I have total faith that each one will be better then the last.

Forget that hocus-pocus weenie corwin. Get something sharp and/or pointy and have at it! Ranger is actually a tougher build because of the expense of buying arrows all the time. Eschalon lets you build lots of very interesting and very different characters and your experience will actually change noticeably based on your build.

Yes, arrows have been a bit of a pain, but I'm supporting my ranged attacks with some short-bladed weaponry to conserve (two arrows, space,space, slash, kill). Adds an element of tactics to the combat which I find enjoyable.

Corwin, I have a mage going also, so I'm alternating. You know I can't go cold turkey on my spellcasting addiction.

I really wish book 2 would have a party like they originally planed. I have to say I was disappointed in book 1. I wonder why single character seems to be so popular. When people recommend a Spiderweb game they seem to recommend Geneforge over Avernum, even though Arvernum 5 is hands-down the best crpg to be released in years and years. And the all the party crpg's coming out are RTwP (Drakensang, The Broken Hourglass) or from companies whose game's I do not care for (and still they're all RTwP).

Where is the love for TB party crpgs? Look at Eschalon, the combat is boring. Not because it is TB, but because it’s SC, not party. I can't think of one single character TB game that had good combat (including the FO's). I also can't think of any single character RTwP or twitch game that had combat that wasn't complete ass. All the crpg greats had TB full party combat besides Darklands. And Geneforge has at least a party of 2, often 3. TB SC games=boring. Tb party games=good. If I wanted to play a crpg with boring combat I have every mainstream game out there, I have no idea why Book 2 wouldn't be party, or why AoD wouldn't be.

Name the game with the best combat (we'll stick to TB so everyone doesn't say Halo or other such FPS nonsense) and I guarantee the game has a party. JA2, ToEE, RoA, UFO:TftD, etc., all party TB.

If I'm going to spend a huge chunk of time engaged in combat, and if 95% of all the character stats and skills are combat oriented, why not go party and make the combat have some depth and strategy and tactics?

I personally wish they'd gone with a party but I also suspect Basilisk were happy to iterate the current engine, rather than the major redesign adding a party would entail.

As for Spiderweb, I'd say Geneforge is a clearly superior CRPG with factions and much deeper choices. If you play a shaper class, you effectively do have a party - it's not that different to Avernum with a number of creation followers.

I could be remembering wrong but A5 had factions and some pretty good choices, on par with the Geneforges. Plus, Avernum 5's chardev and combat was greatly improved from previous offerings, including 4’s, which was a huge improvement over the others. And, even as a shaper with multiple pets, the pets had little options or choices to make in combat. They can't be considered real characters. They’re better than nothing, but not better than A5's real characters with real options, and the multiplicative factor those options bring to the tactics of a battle.

And factions and choices could make a "clearly superior" crpg if they took up a corresponding amount of game time as combat. If you spend 90% of the game exploring and/or in combat you'd have to figure the exploration and combat would have much higher weights when figuring superiority, clearly. And A5 had at least some good choices, and I’m pretty sure it had factions. I’ll probably replay it after Geneforge comes out for the PC and I finish the demo on Saturday morning, decide it’s worth buying, and not get to play it till Monday evening (if my wife even lets me). So I’ll redo Avernum and go into Genforge right after and be able to compare the two newest offerings one right after the other.

But I'd be interesting in hearing your three top games ever in regards to good combat. And I'd also be interested in hearing where you rank Eschalon's combat on a scale of 1-10.

A5 does have some choices but they're not as deep or game-changing as with Geneforge. Also A5 does not really represent the whole series - A4 was a comparatively simple gung-ho action title. I'd agree the combat in Avernum 5 is better - but you can avoid it in Geneforge and you can't in Avernum. Geneforge has a decent stealth option and the Leadership skill can avoid key encounters through dialogue. So, AV might have better combat but GF is a more rounded CRPG with better choices and more options. Both are good, though - nice to see someone appreciate them.

Favourite combats? ToEE...then maybe back to the Gold Box games. Eschalon combat...dunno, 4/10? I'm not disagreeing with your broad point, just that there are other reasons people like GF over AV.