Legends of Eisenwald - Development Diary #12

Couchpotato · April 26, 2014

Aterdux Entertainment has posted the next Developer Diary for Legends of Eisenwald. The new update is a continuation of the last update about sound effects.

Developers Diaries #12: Sound effects #2

In the process of creative task a sound designer considers the tools that were selected for the process. It’s not just programs and equipment that ara used but it’s more about classification and manyfold of used sounds, a structure of the game engine, and what is especially important, what does the game engine allows to do. Main difficulties could be expected on a treshold where two worlds – technical and creative – collide.

We never dealt with sound on the level we want to have at the release of Legends of Eisenwald, so we didn’t have experience of this serious work until the moment we started dealing with it. Before working on the sound, our technical director Nikolay Armonik started working on our engine that we called Aterdux Engine 9. He needed a year to create a flexible game engine that could easily be used to make either a shooter, sports game or an open world RPG. Big and ambitious for our small studio project included plans to make a game that could be played and replayed many times but in the end it required some compromises and limitations so development of the game would not be too long.

Programming tools that we used took away such possibilites as classification of equipment and weapons in a database. Now in the game there are 4 types of armor, and a few weapon types determined by the engine. We had to use some assumptions – for example a leather armor and a brigandine sound the same even though we all understand that metal under a fabric is not leather, even a riveted one.

Another issue with programming tools was not a simplest method of combining sound with animation. For example, when a weapon hits a shield, there is a separate sound. To make it in the game, we can’t just enhance original sample with a sort of a “slide effect”, but we have to record it as a separate file.

We thought how we could combine sounds and resolve some other issues and maybe we found a way. There is a big chance that we will buy a separate sound engine FMOD that is uses in games like Diablo 3, World of Tanks, Deus Ex: Human Revolution. This engine has very rich selection of possibilities and existing solutions that could simplify our life. If this happens, we will make a separate post in our diaries!

Legends of Eisenwald will include also such interesting possibilities like panorama sounds on the map and in the battle depending on the location of camera, sound with reverberation and sound combinations. If we decide to buy FMOD, this will be a great influence for these possibilities.

More information.

Saxon1974 · April 26, 2014

So this game that I pledged for that is like 2 years overdue will be ready in say 2017?

Hope its good! Seriously though, I think the devs hearts are in the right place and game looks promising but talk about way way way under estimating dev time.

Aubrielle · April 26, 2014

Saxon1974 said:
So this game that I pledged for that is like 2 years overdue will be ready in say 2017?

Hope its good! Seriously though, I think the devs hearts are in the right place and game looks promising but talk about way way way under estimating dev time.

Yeah, even despite the April Fools' joke that said it would be out in 2017 (which it took me a couple paragraphs to realize...okay, they're joking), it has taken a while. I'm still glad they're taking extra time to rebuild a totally new interface though

Saxon1974 · April 26, 2014

Yea you know it appears there are many kickstarter dev's reworking stuff. I see them re-doing graphics, GUI's and the like. I guess if it makes for a better game in the long run I prefer that but honestly there is a point when you tinker too much. Ultimately I still hope its better not having publishers pushing games out early but I guess the negative side is this kind of stuff. Makes me wonder if studios that push game more than two years are still going to make any money?

ChienAboyeur · April 26, 2014

The ever lasting developpment as brought by crowdfunded projects. A novelty.

So many are in this now, even some other non crowdfunded indies.

All this underlines so much the value of a publisher and working on the old style of funding.

Wisdom · April 27, 2014

ChienAboyeur said:
All this underlines so much the value of a publisher and working on the old style of funding.

I disagree with this. Developing takes time. With publishers they stick to a schedule whether the product is what was promised or not. They release products not based on product but ROI.

So what if your kickstarting 20$ takes a while longer to see and end product. Account for some inflation over the three years of development which would be the same three years If a publisher was involved, and its not that big of a deal.

Dont forget the intended use of kickstarter.

Carnifex · April 27, 2014

I'm totally ok with waiting on games, especially so if it means a PC game without console-itis. Overall, it's a small price to pay to get a game that's really and fully intended for the pc, and gives us something to look forward for in the future. I've had some disappointments via Kickstarter, but I've seen far more successes.

TomRon · April 27, 2014

Carnifex said:
I'm totally ok with waiting on games, especially so if it means a PC game without console-itis. Overall, it's a small price to pay to get a game that's really and fully intended for the pc, and gives us something to look forward for in the future. I've had some disappointments via Kickstarter, but I've seen far more successes.

Spot on. So far I haven't been dissapointed by any of the released games I've backed, and even if there are many delays, I'll gladly wait.

Aterdux · April 27, 2014

And a quick note - if interface redesign would lengthen the time of development, we would have dropped it. However, interface redesign is a task that is done on the outsource with the money gained from Early Access sales. Most difficulties are still in programming the engine, especially SFX - that took and is still taking time. Also, one of our devs is scheduled for heart surgery, and since he is impossible to replace so short term, this doesn't speed things up. We are going to post an update about this next week. Despite us hitting many misfortunes, we won't give up

ChienAboyeur · April 27, 2014

Wisdom said:
I disagree with this. Developing takes time. With publishers they stick to a schedule whether the product is what was promised or not. They release products not based on product but ROI.

So what if your kickstarting 20$ takes a while longer to see and end product. Account for some inflation over the three years of development which would be the same three years If a publisher was involved, and its not that big of a deal.

Dont forget the intended use of kickstarter.

KS projects are not based on the product either(Some non crowdfunded indies are in the same boat). They are based on the number of work hours a KStarted can buy out.
The game is developped as long as those work hours exist. So, if in the meantime, the better gameplay point is met, KSed do not call it a day, they keep developping on and on, adding features that degrade the gameplay.

Michael Angelo would have made not better various of his works if he had spent double the work hours. At one point, he reached the result he knew he could not better. He peaked. The hard point is to when this point is reached and pull out.
KS(crowdfunding), by design, ignore that pressure.

KSed products do not aim to fulfill promises. They are the reflections of a certain number of work hours that were secured before hand.

If they are not enough, then the product is not as promised.
If they are too many, the product is neither as promised.

Publishers and their way of budgeting call for optimizating the game design in relation with the budget. They can miss for sure.
But KS naturally leads to one of the two outcomes because it is very hard to figure by advance the amount of donation that a project will reach (contrary to other ways of funding that are determined in this regard: you borrow just as much as you think to be required)

As to the purpose of KS, well, for video games, it is much more about securing oneself one year, two years of work than anything else.

TomRon · April 27, 2014

ChienAboyeur said:
As to the purpose of KS, well, for video games, it is much more about securing oneself one year, two years of work than anything else.

No. I think you're way off here. Why would they keep developing if the game is good for release? They've already got the money, there's no point in spending more hours on an already finished game. And calling adding features degrading of gameplay is just silly, it could just as well be improving gameplay depending on what features we're talking about. Do you often play games where you think to yourself "this game has to many features"? You're entitled to your own opinion, but in this case I think you are utterly and totally wrong. You're delivering subjective opinions as if they we're fact, which they are not.

ChienAboyeur · April 27, 2014

Which release is that?

Crowdfunded projects are now used to monetizing access to "alpha" and beta releases.

Which are releases. One consequence is that features are then added after release.
(to be added to the SE Access) So...

Why keep adding features? Because the work hours were paid upfront.

As the first part was non sense, refering to release instead of a complete state of the game, now the second part.

All the time. Projects that allow access to their betas are subjected to that as they allow to follow the developpment of the game so it is possible to see if the gameplay was at some time better or not.

Crowdfunded projects are not the only subjected.

For example, the game Don't starve. Very good game that was a big selling success.

As such, the game developpment was kept on because of the tremendous amount of money that was generated.

At start, the game was exactly what it was depicted to be: an uncompromizing survival game.
Then the relentless addition of features led the game to lose its mojo.

Cause is simple: uncompromizing survival. Adding content is only worth if the player can experience it. Therefore, in order to allow the player to see the extra content, they started to compromize and relieve the survival pressure.

It ends with a game that has moved from an uncompromizing survival game to an ever compromizing, less survival game.

Addition of new features has kept degenerating the initial game.

TomRon · April 28, 2014

ChienAboyeur said:
Which release is that?

FTL, Shadowrun returns, Expeditions conquistador, The Banner saga. RELEASED games, not early access.

You're the one who keep calling early access a release. It's not, it's a beta you pay to play. Which is fine if you're in to that. I'm not, so I wait until the developers say "good enough, let's release". Then, and only then, will I pass judgement on the game.

ChienAboyeur · April 28, 2014

Early access? I mentioned Steam Early access which is a service that provide beta releases.

In this regard, every beta is a release. Simple parroting of what is considered elsewhere.
Easy to check by simply putting the words "beta" and "release" in a search engine.
References will come up with multiple authors.

There is a confusion between the beta version release that might be considered as the final product (which, as final, is not supposed to be updated afterwards) and the other releases before that.

Calling the final version of the product exclusively release over all the other released version does not follow the common convention.
Useless to try turning tables.
So , when a KSed project sends out a release, as it is usually done in beta stage, very early beta stage, features are kept being added.

And they will keep being added until the pre paid work hours are gone.

Which is not product centric. But worker centric.

KS works at the benefit of the worker, not the product. And therefore not at the benefit of the consumer of the product.

Legends of Eisenwald - Development Diary #12

Couchpotato

Part-Time News-bot

Saxon1974

Keeper of the Watch

Aubrielle

Noveliste

Saxon1974

Keeper of the Watch

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

Wisdom

Torch & Pitchfork Vendor

Carnifex

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TomRon

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Aterdux

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ChienAboyeur

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TomRon

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ChienAboyeur

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TomRon

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ChienAboyeur

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