Jagged Alliance 3 - Announced

Couchpotato said:

The announcement surprised me as well but interest in the series seems to be on the rise. I remember the first game got a remaster, but the sequel failed on Kickstarter.

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IIRC that wasn't a sequel but a remake of the original game, though. This is an actual sequel. And it seems the original devs (Appeal) are on it too.

Kordanor said:

Ok, so here is a list of all the things I have been able to get out of the page and trailer:

Combat & Tactical:
(…)
-Has Overwatch now

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In your opinion, couldn't the "Interruption" mechanics from JA2 be considered an early form of Overwatch (even without using this name specifically)?

Like: IIRC (and you can correct me if I'm mistaken) in JA2 you can leave some unspent APs from previous round, and if enemies come into sight, you can use those unspent APs to shoot them. Likewise the Overwatch mechanics in XCOM2 also requires that you leave at least one unspent action (of the two actions you're usually allowed to) in order to shoot at enemies on their round.

I think it looks possibly good, will wait and see. I was not some kind of huge fan of the series before, I don't think I even played the first game, or if I did, don't remember. But I do like rpg turn based combat with guns.
Wasteland 2 and Encased have both shown me that.

Also wanted to make a quick comment on a closed thread, its rare to see a thread closed here, but I get it, things got heated, for some reason. It was surprising how fiery and intense it got in that thread, whoa! It was a video review of Divinity Original Sin 2. Anyway, I started to watch the review, and its quite interesting, and provocative so far. I can see why it provoked a strong reaction.

Anyway, I do like provocative reviews and maybe we have a new source for "controversial" rpg video reviews, lol.

Arkadia7 said:

I think it looks possibly good, will wait and see. I was not some kind of huge fan of the series before, I don't think I even played the first game, or if I did, don't remember. But I do like rpg turn based combat with guns.
Wasteland 2 and Encased have both shown me that.

Also wanted to make a quick comment on a closed thread, its rare to see a thread closed here, but I get it, things got heated, for some reason. It was surprising how fiery and intense it got in that thread, whoa! It was a video review of Divinity Original Sin 2. Anyway, I started to watch the review, and its quite interesting, and provocative so far. I can see why it provoked a strong reaction.

Anyway, I do like provocative reviews and maybe we have a new source for "controversial" rpg video reviews, lol.

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Well shucks all I did was pour gasoline over the fiery embers.

Anyway yeah I lately find I enjoy turn based combat with guns myself, and ho boy I usually hate turn based combat in RPGs. Maybe I'm mellowing out in my older years.

wiretripped said:

IIRC that wasn't a sequel but a remake of the original game, though. This is an actual sequel. And it seems the original devs (Appeal) are on it too.

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Looks like I got it confused thanks for the correction.

Glad to see it's some of the original developers again as well.

I never played JA2. What was so special about it?

…so anyway, I enjoyed both Divinity OS 1 & 2 …and actually finished them.

There. That's my addition to the now-closed thread.

As for JA3-- as long as Shadow and Raider are back, I'll invade any artificial country they can give us. I just don't want to be forced to clear half the map with revolvers before I have enough money for rifles. That part was kind of silly until the modders fixed it.

Arkadia7 said:

Also wanted to make a quick comment on a closed thread, its rare to see a thread closed here, but I get it, things got heated, for some reason. It was surprising how fiery and intense it got in that thread, whoa! It was a video review of Divinity Original Sin 2. Anyway, I started to watch the review, and its quite interesting, and provocative so far. I can see why it provoked a strong reaction.

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Ironically, the person who was initially triggered apparently didn't even watch the video.

Morrandir said:

I never played JA2. What was so special about it?

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I'd like to know that as well. I missed it back in the day, but I can tell there must be something good there to have such a hardcore following.

Also, what would someone recommend as far as the more modern JA games? I've thought about giving the series a try, but the older games are somewhat dated now.

JA2 was, in essence, an RPG. You could create your own character, pick his/her stats, etc. You then had to purchase pre-made companions. Level 1 companions, like yourself starting out, were super cheap, but were fat, slow and couldn't hit anything with a firearm. That was kind of the humorous part of the game, you'd start it with couch potatoes (no offense, Couch Potato) with quirky personalities and with a crappy handgun, then go invade a country. BUT as the game progressed, so did their level, so by the end of the game, they were pretty good.

Plus, as you took 'areas' of the map, you'd invest in building militias that would get randomly attacked by roving bands of enemies. You could actually watch the AI fighting against itself as it unfolded, or if you had a companion stationed there, you could be part of the battle. It really was a neat structure that you just don't see in games, anymore.

The tactical turn-based combat was on-par with XCOM, and in many ways, better. And it was a long compaign with a lot of micro-managing toward the end. I realize that doesn't appeal to a lot of people, but I reckon if you're into turn-based tac games, you're at least okay with it.

Weapons were heavily-customizable, companions could (and often did) die, resource management was critical, you controlled several squads all over the map, etc.

Even by today's standards, it was a very complex game. And supported passionately by a husband/wife dev team at Sirtech (Canada), who supported amazing mods, fixed bugs and even answered phone calls back in the day when you could literally call the company on the phone with questions/concerns.

Basically, if you enjoy the new Wastelands, Phoenix Point or Xcom games, you'd enjoy this.

Can I skip the first game and jump right in the second one, will I miss something? I tried the first one long ago and even then it felt too old for my taste, and I tried it few days ago again when they gave it for free, but I think I'll be skipping it.

Ivanwah said:

Can I skip the first game and jump right in the second one, will I miss something? I tried the first one long ago and even then it felt too old for my taste, and I tried it few days ago again when they gave it for free, but I think I'll be skipping it.

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Definitely start with JA2, it's much better, and not really related at all except for a few of the same companions…

Jagged Alliance and Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games are very good and challenging games as well.

I enjoyed playing Jagged Alliance: Back in Action & Jagged Alliance: Crossfire but the reception of those two games wasn't great. They were followed by Jagged Alliance Flashback & Jagged Alliance: Rage! which weren't so great. So fingers crossed.

I'd say both Jagged Alliance games are well worth playing, and the second is my favorite by far. You don't need to play one to enjoy the other, and bring your big boy pants to play, these games take no prisoners.

JDR13 said:

I'd like to know that as well. I missed it back in the day, but I can tell there must be something good there to have such a hardcore following.

Also, what would someone recommend as far as the more modern JA games? I've thought about giving the series a try, but the older games are somewhat dated now.

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To know why JA2 is so great, I think you'd have to play JA2. The various pretenders afterwards aren't worth much. (This JA3 looks like it could be good, though.) JA2 is like Fallout 1&2 / Wasteland 2&3 style combat but with big squads, lots of colorful characters, humor, real tactics, huge selections of weapons, etc. Just all-around one of the greatest games ever made.

henriquejr said:

In your opinion, couldn't the "Interruption" mechanics from JA2 be considered an early form of Overwatch (even without using this name specifically)?

Like: IIRC (and you can correct me if I'm mistaken) in JA2 you can leave some unspent APs from previous round, and if enemies come into sight, you can use those unspent APs to shoot them. Likewise the Overwatch mechanics in XCOM2 also requires that you leave at least one unspent action (of the two actions you're usually allowed to) in order to shoot at enemies on their round.

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The interruption mechanic is much much more sophisticated than overwatch.
Overwatch is basically an extremely simplified version and not as much of a "simulation" as interrupts.

Keep in mind that Jagged Alliance does a lot to "simulate" combat, which is also a big difference to Firaxis XCom, but also different to most other games with AP.
For example: Usually in games you have AP and shooting with a gun costs a fixed amount of AP. Not so in JA. In JA everyone is supposed to be able to shoot equally often. The AP are just to represent movement speed.
So how does JA do it?
If it costs 8 Base AP points to shoot a gun with 20 AP, a guy with just 15 AP, will only need to use 6 AP to shoot that gun. So both people can shoot twice and have a few AP left to run.

And this kind of reflects also in the interruption.
In overwatch you just need X points, and then you set one person to interrupt and he will shoot when the enemy goes into the range.

With interrupts you need to keep remaining AP. You will only receive an interrupt when a complicated calculation goes into your favor. Same for the enemy.
For example:
Lets assume you are running past a window and there is an enemy behind it. What happens now?
Does the enemy look out of the Window? Which Character level does he have?
What level does your character have? Is he running? Walking? Sneaking? Where is he looking?

So the ideal way here is that your character positions next to the window, then looks towards the wall. And then sidesteps infront of the window while looking towards the wall. Now if you get lucky the enemy will not get an interrupt.

And if you do get an interrupt, then thats still far from over. You can do whatever you want with your AP. But if you miss your shot, your interrupt might be cancelled. It might even be possible that you shoot and with that become visible by an enemy, who now gets an interrupt within your interrupt.

So the interrupt mechanic is much more complex and sophisticated. But at this point I am ok with a bit of simplification.

Kordanor said:

Usually in games you have AP and shooting with a gun costs a fixed amount of AP. Not so in JA. In JA everyone is supposed to be able to shoot equally often. The AP are just to represent movement speed.
So how does JA do it?
If it costs 8 Base AP points to shoot a gun with 20 AP, a guy with just 15 AP, will only need to use 6 AP to shoot that gun. So both people can shoot twice and have a few AP left to run.

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I never noticed that, perhaps due to the fact I didn't progress too far when I played JA2.

Kordanor said:

And if you do get an interrupt, then thats still far from over. You can do whatever you want with your AP. But if you miss your shot, your interrupt might be cancelled. It might even be possible that you shoot and with that become visible by an enemy, who now gets an interrupt within your interrupt.

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That I had noticed. We shoot at enemies when we're interrupting them, and then some of them may shoot back at us.

Kordanor said:

So the interrupt mechanic is much more complex and sophisticated. But at this point I am ok with a bit of simplification.

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Me too!

Anyway, thanks for the explanation! We can always rely on you for all things JA2-related

ChaosTheory said:

JA2 was, in essence, an RPG. You could create your own character, pick his/her stats, etc.

[...]

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Thanks for the great synopsis!

Is it known if in JA3 you'll have a customized main character too?
That would be the prerequisite for me to try it. I have no interest in just commanding premade characters as an anonymous entity.

Also I'd like to see how meaty it is besides combat. I really like turn-based combat (and strategy games in general) but I really like to do stuff besides combat, like exploring, talking, building etc.

Morrandir said:

Thanks for the great synopsis!

Is it known if in JA3 you'll have a customized main character too?
That would be the prerequisite for me to try it. I have no interest in just commanding premade characters as an anonymous entity.

Also I'd like to see how meaty it is besides combat. I really like turn-based combat (and strategy games in general) but I really like to do stuff besides combat, like exploring, talking, building etc.

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It's not know yet.

And while it certainly has RPG elements, I wouldn't call it an RPG. First and foremost it's a tactics game.

The RPG part of the previous games are limited to the characters and their interactions with each other and very few quests. But in that sense you could probably compre it more to games like Rimworld.

Must...NOT....get hopes up...

TomRon said:

Must...NOT....get hopes up...

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