Dragonrage 2 is the best written rpg since cryscape:tearment

Most of the fans will probably know about Project Aon (a collection of online versions of Joe Dever's Lone Wolf work) but just in case you don't:

http://www.projectaon.org/
 
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Well Merrill is a sort of mystery, I agree that her apparent naivety is to link more with a different way of living she isn't used to. Perhaps the writers caricature it a bit too much. But the point is it let feel to be in total opposition with her courage to go against the whole clan for convictions. This putting her in a position between fanatics and people that have the courage to make stuff move despite all obstacles.

i was talking about isabella

but now merril, she really is inconsistent, she is naive, forgetful, nervous and cannot see into other peoples motives very well yet she has a demon inside of her which have destroyed the minds and bodies of the most powerful mages yet she soehow has managed to exert enough control over the demon to retain herself. (and demons are masters of deceit)

i wouldn't be suprised if she was written by david gaider, seeing he wrote aerie from bg2seeing they share alot of similiarities
 
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care to explain why?

The major issue with dragon Age 2's story: it exhibits a defect in the Dragon Age Universe.

Typically, the life of a mage in this universe is too coercive to allow an adventurer character.

Mages can either live:
-in the Circle, under the supervision of a religious order.
-as an apostate, hunted down and distrusted.
-as a Grey Warden, a status allowing a certain degree of freedom.

Drawing heroes from the mages pool is like picturing an adventuring black slave in the 18th century US. It can not work. Too much suspension of disbelief required to get the story going.

Magick is perceived as a dangerous threat in most areas of the DA universe. It took a revolutionary prophetess to break the yoke imposed by magick, with the consequence that magick control is wrapped in religious beliefs.

The writers got glued in that quagmire: the story starts with a templar (a good man as said by his wife Aveline) pointing at the apostates who have just saved his life to end with an Abomination and a blood mage being publically known to Kirkwall Templar order. And what is supposed to happen between the two stages? A loosening up? No. The opposite: a tightening in the way of Kirkwall's templar order, already depicted as extremelly strict compared to the Fereldan order. It does not fit.

Running under the very nose of the templars at the Gallows with a party full of mages (all unregistered) did not make it for me (Act One)
The Araashad unable to spot mages sporting robes and staves just before the confrontation did not either. And so on... The story line is full of events that break the credibility of the situations. Because the life of a mage in DA universe is supposedly so restricted one can not extract a mage character, not only allowed to live a casual live, but also drawing attention while getting no response.

At no time, Kirkwall templar order tried to capture one of the mages present in the party. Too unbelievable to allow a good storytelling.
 
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i was talking about isabella

but now merril, she really is inconsistent, she is naive, forgetful, nervous and cannot see into other peoples motives very well yet she has a demon inside of her which have destroyed the minds and bodies of the most powerful mages yet she soehow has managed to exert enough control over the demon to retain herself. (and demons are masters of deceit)

i wouldn't be suprised if she was written by david gaider, seeing he wrote aerie from bg2seeing they share alot of similiarities

Sheehh now you post non codex like posts? The world is going mad, I always said it.

I agree it's a way to see Merrill, but look closely.

Didn't you listen too much the Fenris crap? Don't listen any word of him, he is obviously totally blind because of his hate and he is close to madness. I know Anders will say that too but again do you really think Anders is believable? One more totally blind because of his hate and madness but he hides it better than Fenris does.

So no, Merrill had no Demon inside her. No, Blood Magic doesn't require make a pact with a Demon, any people telling that and not mad is saying it from a second degree perspective looking at Blood Magic as pure evil.

But this is very far from truth. In case of Merrill quest and the point of view of the Archivist is that Merrill is in relation with the demon and the mirror and her quest of the past, and she thinks she will be manipulated by him. But the Archivist has too much love for Merrill and didn't learn have faith in her. Nothing proves the Archivist is right, no demon is in Merrill, and Merrill has the mental strength and purity to beat the demon at his own game particularly with the full support of Hawke. Yes this could have end in Merrill death and the Archivist took care it didn't happen, this time. But she steal Merrill her destiny. The truth is Merrill still has the mirror (for some quest alternatives) and enough determination to find any other demon and continue her quest. The Archivist attempt was so vain she understood nothing and that some values could worth the ultimate sacrifice of life. But no the Archivist stupid choice is pure egoism, but what Merrill was ready for and for what she was ready to, this had a totally other dimension. I really hope a DLC will allow her end her quest but I don't believe at all this DLC will ever be released.

Yeah probably Gaider give too many idea to this story but I'm bored of Gaider obsession to have dark or at least dark grey ends. In fact Merrill death but achieving her quest would have been an amazing end for her quest, very powerful emotionally, less dark in fact.
 
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The major issue with dragon Age 2's story: it exhibits a defect in the Dragon Age Universe..

I don't quote the whole I think it should be in a spoil tag, but it's just few posts above if you want the detail.

The argument about having an apostate walking under the nose of templar and don't believe it is an argument based on robes and staff. In fact only the staff is for the player an identification point, not even the robes.

But the point is it's clearly not an identification proof for the game world conventions only using magic is. And I don't remember in DAO mages was identified at sight because of carrying a staff. If during introduction the Templar point apostate it's because he saw them using magic.

I don't think the game transgress this, the only cases it happens in my play aren't always directly explained by the game but then you learn later good reason why this or this Templar didn't denunciate you before you had become the herault of the town. But at this point you are untouchable and your companions with you too.

Your second point is about blood magic, but again there's no way to identify a mage is using blood magic or is already possessed by a demon. Only saw him using blood magic or currently possessed are the proof of that. And clearly it didn't happened in cases you quoted.

But I do agree with you that the game convention for which someone with a staff isn't a point of identification of mage at sight, is a hard convention to accept. But it's a convention.

If you don't accept this convention then yes the game is broken but if you do, then it's quite different. And really the game gave you many points showing this convention, like this NPC or this NPC not identifying you as a mage because of your staff… until he see you using magic.
 
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Sheehh now you post non codex like posts? The world is going mad, I always said it.

I agree it's a way to see Merrill, but look closely.

Didn't you listen too much the Fenris crap? Don't listen any word of him, he is obviously totally blind because of his hate and he is close to madness. I know Anders will say that too but again do you really think Anders is believable? One more totally blind because of his hate and madness but he hides it better than Fenris does.

So no, Merrill had no Demon inside her. No, Blood Magic doesn't require make a pact with a Demon, any people telling that and not mad is saying it from a second degree perspective looking at Blood Magic as pure evil.

But this is very far from truth. In case of Merrill quest and the point of view of the Archivist is that Merrill is in relation with the demon and the mirror and her quest of the past, and she thinks she will be manipulated by him. But the Archivist has too much love for Merrill and didn't learn have faith in her. Nothing proves the Archivist is right, no demon is in Merrill, and Merrill has the mental strength and purity to beat the demon at his own game particularly with the full support of Hawke. Yes this could have end in Merrill death and the Archivist took care it didn't happen, this time. But she steal Merrill her destiny. The truth is Merrill still has the mirror (for some quest alternatives) and enough determination to find any other demon and continue her quest. The Archivist attempt was so vain she understood nothing and that some values could worth the ultimate sacrifice of life. But no the Archivist stupid choice is pure egoism, but what Merrill was ready for and for what she was ready to, this had a totally other dimension. I really hope a DLC will allow her end her quest but I don't believe at all this DLC will ever be released.

Yeah probably Gaider give too many idea to this story but I'm bored of Gaider obsession to have dark or at least dark grey ends. In fact Merrill death but achieving her quest would have been an amazing end for her quest, very powerful emotionally, less dark in fact.

i thought she had a demon inside of her when she said ''Yes, it was blood magic, but I know what I'm doing. The spirit helped us, didn't it?''

she said that after destroying the magic barrier
 
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i thought she had a demon inside of her when she said ''Yes, it was blood magic, but I know what I'm doing. The spirit helped us, didn't it?''

she said that after destroying the magic barrier
Well ok someone pointed me there's contradictory points about that in DAO. On one part the hero needs learn Blood Magic specialization from a demon. Something I had forget mainly because I used a mod to unlock specializations. So this is making a link with demons and blood magic. But on another way, Jowan seems have learn Blood Magic only by himself, without any pact with a demon.

But in both cases, in no way it means the mage using Blood Magic means he is possessed by a demon.

But I do agree your quote that happen when Merrill opens a magical barrier involves confusion.

If I remember well blood magic is more deeply explained in DAO. And if I remember well the point is blood only and not at all demons. But there's two danger about it that have made it a forbidden magic. First the blood could not be the mage blood this allowing easy abuse at depends of someone else life, and this making a Blood Mage potentially more dangerous for normal humans. The second point was that through blood magic the mage was gaining more power and then was attracting more powerful demons making possession and transform in abomination more frequent.

But once again there's the facts, the superstitions and the second degree. One example in a spoil that despite what DA2 seems thrown to player this direct and necessary link between Blood Magic and demon and possession is far to be obvious:
When Orsino transforms in abomination as soon as he is using blood magic, that could be just a desperate and mad attempt to deliberately transform in abomination and use a special blood magic for that. Some quotes highlight he and some previous mage of Kirkwall was studying a special Blood Magic. This special Blood Magic could also be the explanation why so many Kirkwall Blood Mage are able to summon demonic entities.

Also right before he made this desperate choice, Orsino explains the case is lost because more templar will come is they ever win this fight. From his point of view he was going to die anyway.

So I do agree have Merrill mention a spirit is troubling, possibly a second degree answer about the Hawke remark, but possibly something else. But overall if there's a general explanation it's more that in Kirkwall a special blood magic get developed and spread, there's many hints about that. But in no way I see how Merrill could be linked with that special Blood Magic. And once more Blood Magic never mean have an inner demon.
 
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Well ok someone pointed me there's contradictory points about that in DAO. On one part the hero needs learn Blood Magic specialization from a demon. Something I had forget mainly because I used a mod to unlock specializations. So this is making a link with demons and blood magic. But on another way, Jowan seems have learn Blood Magic only by himself, without any pact with a demon.

But in both cases, in no way it means the mage using Blood Magic means he is possessed by a demon.

But I do agree your quote that happen when Merrill opens a magical barrier involves confusion.

If I remember well blood magic is more deeply explained in DAO. And if I remember well the point is blood only and not at all demons. But there's two danger about it that have made it a forbidden magic. First the blood could not be the mage blood this allowing easy abuse at depends of someone else life, and this making a Blood Mage potentially more dangerous for normal humans. The second point was that through blood magic the mage was gaining more power and then was attracting more powerful demons making possession and transform in abomination more frequent.

But once again there's the facts, the superstitions and the second degree. One example in a spoil that despite what DA2 seems thrown to player this direct and necessary link between Blood Magic and demon and possession is far to be obvious:
When Orsino transforms in abomination as soon as he is using blood magic, that could be just a desperate and mad attempt to deliberately transform in abomination and use a special blood magic for that. Some quotes highlight he and some previous mage of Kirkwall was studying a special Blood Magic. This special Blood Magic could also be the explanation why so many Kirkwall Blood Mage are able to summon demonic entities.

Also right before he made this desperate choice, Orsino explains the case is lost because more templar will come is they ever win this fight. From his point of view he was going to die anyway.

So I do agree have Merrill mention a spirit is troubling, possibly a second degree answer about the Hawke remark, but possibly something else. But overall if there's a general explanation it's more that in Kirkwall a special blood magic get developed and spread, there's many hints about that. But in no way I see how Merrill could be linked with that special Blood Magic. And once more Blood Magic never mean have an inner demon.

im not reading that.
 
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Those who CAN, DO!!!!! :)
 
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The argument about having an apostate walking under the nose of templar and don't believe it is an argument based on robes and staff. In fact only the staff is for the player an identification point, not even the robes.
In another comment, I listed some of the occurrences breaking the illusion (spoilers warning is global)
It is not simply about attire characterization but also magic use. The Templars order is told to grow paranoid, seeking mage corruption within their own ranks (for justified causes) Yet they would not investigate companions of a rising battling figure (Hawke) Nobody reported magic use? Hawke and/or his sister use magic on their arrival (confrontation with the Fereldans wanting to force their way in, in an open place, day time, lots of witnesses
But the point is it's clearly not an identification proof for the game world conventions only using magic is. And I don't remember in DAO mages was identified at sight because of carrying a staff. If during introduction the Templar point apostate it's because he saw them using magic.
DA:O is a totally different setting.
It is a time of blight, therefore turmoil. King is dead, Conspiracies are going. Morrigan is the only apostate in the party (save possibly the hero who is a Grey Warden, a status that allows more liberty to mages, as they are sort of off limits for templars) and she is perfectly trained to avoid the templar threat. Wynne is an authorized mage on a mission for the Circle of magic.
The time action is short (we are learnt that the blight action is supposed to have lasted one year)
So nope, mages going around in this kind of context goes smoothly.
In DA:RtP, the setting is totally different. It spans over years in a city reported as hosting a most suspicious templar order.
Even the companions' attitude to each other is dubious. In DA:O, the emergency of the blight explains why companions put aside their differences. But over ten years, with no immediate threat at hand, it is totally a different story.
I don't think the game transgress this, the only cases it happens in my play aren't always directly explained by the game but then you learn later good reason why this or this Templar didn't denunciate you before you had become the herault of the town. But at this point you are untouchable and your companions with you too.
It goes way beyond that the total templar inaction.
Blood mages, corrupted mages are all secretive by necessity. Making it a necessity for templars to developp investigation activities.
Yet over the seven/ten years, no one of them is able to connect Hawke, his companions and the use of magic. Templars have no informants among the population.
Even better, the coterie is told to be very adverse to competition and yet, while Hawke and his sibling are the only thing resisting their efforts, the coterie did not give them in to the templar order.
Your second point is about blood magic, but again there's no way to identify a mage is using blood magic or is already possessed by a demon. Only saw him using blood magic or currently possessed are the proof of that. And clearly it didn't happened in cases you quoted.

I did not spot the second point.

But being an apostate is being a mage outside the supervision of a templar order, outside a circle of magic. It has little to do with blood magic, even though DA2 pictures apostates nearly as blood mages.
This makes that templars unable to characterize use of magic on a battle scene. They can not distinguish between a corpse burnt by a magical fire and a corpse burned by oil fire.

But I do agree with you that the game convention for which someone with a staff isn't a point of identification of mage at sight, is a hard convention to accept. But it's a convention.

If you don't accept this convention then yes the game is broken but if you do, then it's quite different. And really the game gave you many points showing this convention, like this NPC or this NPC not identifying you as a mage because of your staff… until he see you using magic.

It goes way beyond the attire.
The Araashad's example tells that. The Arishok has singled out Hawke as a bas-asalit an. He has an efficient intelligence service. Yet Hawke's befriending mages is a total surprise to an Araashad…
And at this point indeed, the attire plays a part. Hawke is known as a fighter, his companions for some of them are public figures. It takes a stretch for them not being able to associate the remaining companions with mages. I even favour the idea that mages in the game can go under a disguise attire in normal times. But during battle times? Nobody at the Ostagar camp could infer that a person with a staff and a robe is likely to be a mage? Big stretch...
Templars by necessity are used to investigating cases. And Hawke and his companions can go under the rader for seven years. Nobody gave them in. When in mind, the structuring around magic stems from religious beliefs. Nobody was willing to give in mages for salvation concerns. Great.
It is all about the level of secrecy the party manages to provide to their mages, while rising in glory and public knowledge, using magic openly and frequently and this in the Spanish Inquistion templar mode Kirkwall is said to become.
 
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I answered you in the other post with spoil you opened. To answer here quickly and very globally (see the spoil post for more details):

There's many many many clues that Meredith control only the circle an not at all the town unlike you seem pretend.

She is a threat and a power for the town because she command the templar but even Templars aren't fully on her side not fully motivated. Perhaps few but not even the majority.

All in all it's not at all Meredith rise of power but more Meredith fall.
 
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It is not about Meredith. Meredith is an extremistic templar.

The Templar normal purpose is to monitor mages, to prevent the exercise of magic outside the order supervision. This by religious beliefs.

Meredith and kirkwall make the matter worse as they are supposed to be extremelly oppressive, even by templar standards.
 
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It is not about Meredith. Meredith is an extremistic templar.

The Templar normal purpose is to monitor mages, to prevent the exercise of magic outside the order supervision. This by religious beliefs.

Meredith and kirkwall make the matter worse as they are supposed to be extremelly oppressive, even by templar standards.

And spoil and spoil, well better use the other thread if you want I answer about that point and I have an answer.
 
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Spoilers? more advertizing for the game. People need teasers. And they are teasers. Nothing that can not be found in a Bioware promotional...
 
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Spoilers? more advertizing for the game. People need teasers. And they are teasers. Nothing that can not be found in a Bioware promotional…

Ha ha ha. Please tell me your next favorite RPG. And your favorite forum, I'll give this game the treatment you deserve to DA2, and we will debate about spoil then.
 
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