JA2 Reloaded - No TB Combat!

Dhruin

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Uh oh. bitComposer's "faithful" remake of Jagged Alliance 2 has taken a big step into the mainstream and away from faithful after deciding to ditch the original turn-based combat for a realtime-with-pause system. Here's the full post on their forums:
Dear Community,
Many thanks for your many proposals and suggestions. This has obviously sparked off heated discussions that have provoked a wide range of opinions about how we could change the combat system, if we should change it and, if so, what changes would be best suited to the game.
To ensure that Jagged Alliance 2 makes a successful transition into 2011 and that the remake is as attractive as possible to players who know the Jagged Alliance series and to those who have yet to play it, we will simply make a few changes to the existing JA2 combat system. We are calling the new combat system the “Plan & Go” system. It is based more on real time, and represents a departure from the original combat system in Jagged Alliance 2. We would like to outline the significant changes below, and hope that you, the official JA2 community, will be as excited as we are about them.
Basically, the overall strategy in the combat system remains the same! The player has to identify strategically advantageous positions on the map to minimize losses to his own side as far as possible.
In the “Plan & Go” system we have omitted the “Fog of War”, which covered most of the map in JA2. Enemies positioned outside buildings are permanently visible, which enables the player to establish a strategy from the outset without having to constantly save and load. In addition, the world looks much more animated and lively as the hostile forces patrol in the meticulously detailed 3D backdrops.
The “Plan & Go” system removes the turn-based structure. If the player wants to react to an incident, he can pause the game at any time or allow the game to pause automatically by carrying out a particular activity (e.g. if a mercenary has run out of ammunition).
The real-time elements in the “Plan & Go” system also add new and exciting features such as “Timing” for example. As the enemies are patrolling all over the map, the player must time his movements very precisely to defend himself against his enemies. Here, the need to quicksave/quick load is greatly reduced, as the risks and challenges are more easily identified and the effect of the risk is reduced to a much shorter time (e.g. a character is sighted before he has reached his target, so the shooting starts earlier than anticipated).
The “Plan & Go” system also enables players to specify the conditions under which his units can attack independently; they can therefore open fire when enemies enter their range of vision. This offers players the same tactical depth in terms of decision-making, and also intensifies the combat experience, because more experienced players have to pause much less frequently and, for the most part, can let the game progress in real time. In particular, this speeds up battles with large numbers of fighters and which seemed like they would never end in the original game!
The advantages of the “Plan & Go” system opposed to the turn-based original are:
• It is dynamic, as it allows combat in real time.
• It introduces timing as a new element: it enables the player to spot and assess enemy movements, so he can either cleverly sneak past, or lie in wait and choose the right moment to attack.
• It avoids the situation where you get mixed up in a battle while your mercenaries are some distance from the front. JA2 was very time-consuming in this respect, because players had to lag behind for several turns while they moved all their mercenaries to the front.
• Combat with large numbers of enemies happen more quickly; in JA2 it took ages for the round to finish when numerous mercenaries and enemies were involved in the battle.
• The new system also allows us to incorporate new AI functions such as cutting off and flanking enemies, that only work when actions are carried out simultaneously and not one after the other.
Your bitComposer Team
Spotted at GamersGlobal.
More information.
 
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Gah. I'll replay 1.13 again when this abomination comes out I guess...
 
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Haben die 'ne Vollmeise ???

JA2 Reloaded = F.L.O.P.

more like

Jagged Alliance - Barrel Burst
 
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First Arcania, now JA2 Reloaded.
Driving great names into the ground/into the dirt.
 
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Ouch. I have no doubt that the developers had good intentions when they decided to develop this remake, but this is just horrible news. How is this in any way a "remake"? You're turning the game from a Tactical Turn-based game to a Tactical Real-time game. They're basically changing the genres. I don't see how this qualifies as a "remake".

Bah, sad news indeed.
 
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Oh, I am sure that the JA community will be totally thrilled with the news. Because, like JA was a great game except for the sucky TB combat. :roll: *looks at thread* Yeah, thought so. :biggrin:
 
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They're trying to catch new customers with it.
Probably due to the bad image turn-based combat has - "uh, so boring" and such stuff.
 
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Kind of shooting themselves in the foot with this move.
 
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Fine by me.
 
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More concerning for me is the fact that they are removing the fog of war and all outside enemies are visible (Even the ones you can't see?!?!?)
 
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I agree with bjon045, this plan & go thing sounds bad but at least it removes the horrible hunt for last soldier on the map problem I've encountered too frequently with JA2.

I really didn't have high hopes for turn-based combat in this day and age. I somewhat enjoyed Fallout Tactics (for the combat) and would rather see the simultaneous turn feature it had than true real time. It could end up being ok. It could end up being crap. Only time will tell I suppose.
 
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Have to say that i am hardly surprised. I am sure whoever is funding them would put a full stop on TB even if they really wanted to implement. What's sad is that it is basically another nail in the coffin of TB. It has clearly been accepted that TB is completely non-viable for AAA or games targeted at larger market.

So TB will seemingly eternally be relegated to indies and niche hardcore strategy games. However, I really think many gamers, including new and younger games, could really get into TB if there were good games being produced. If God of War is all your exposed to, that's all you will like.
 
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These are my thoughts as I read this post:

hope that you, the official JA2 community, will be as excited as we are about them.

You're scaring me.

Basically, the overall strategy in the combat system remains the same!

Whew….Good, then it will have a turn-based system that is second to none out there.

The player has to identify strategically advantageous positions on the map to minimize losses to his own side as far as possible.

No kidding Sherlock! It's called a strategy game.

In the “Plan & Go” system we have omitted the “Fog of War”, which covered most of the map in JA2.

Wai?What??? So no fog of war? I can see everyone? If I wanted to play chess I would just play chess. Still not so bad, I guess. Even though that was a lot of the fun with JA2.

Enemies positioned outside buildings are permanently visible, which enables the player to establish a strategy from the outset without having to constantly save and load.

So you're making chess. I think they have already invented that game.

In addition, the world looks much more animated and lively as the hostile forces patrol in the meticulously detailed 3D backdrops.

Who cares? Get back to the gameplay.

The “Plan & Go” system removes the turn-based structure.

What????? WHAT??????

I had hoped that DHruin made a mistake, but he didn't and after reading that I only have one thing to say:

picture.php


JA3 or JA2 Reloaded or whatever the hell they want to call it, went from a title I heard rumors about and would have loved to play one day to this:

picture.php



R.I.P. Jagged Alliance series.
 
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JA3 or JA2 Reloaded or whatever the hell they want to call it…

Actually the really depressing thing is, that bitComposer are not only making this "remake" of JA2 but they are apparently also developing JA Online and JA3. I could understand if they fuck try something new with the latter two but with the remake? Nice way to dig their own grave…
 
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I will enjoy their unavoidable failure.
 
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Too bad, lost another paying costumer.
Iam getting to old to cry over such painful events, so i just ignore from now on this title.

**In the “Plan & Go” system we have omitted the “Fog of War”**
Is a NO go !

edit : after reading there forum
There forum is storming all over.
 
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Well, I really do not mind. This is basically Baldur's Gate I. Getting rid of TB was good 12 years ago and this is no different. The last TB game I played was Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, and I used a hack that could speed up time because it was so dreadfully slow. There's a woman playing the game on youtube. She's up at video 296 now, 10-15 minutes each, and she isn't near the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFG9wzkb__0

I also remember the ages Fallout battles could take when a fight broke out into a town and it could take 5 minutes until you could control your characters again because every frigid civilian had to move one by one.

One of the worst parts with TB is already mentioned, when TB is enabled too early and you have to use the first rounds to simply get your guys in position.
But then you have the people you just do not need, you want them to guard somewhere until needed, but every round you have to click past them, while there are a lot of foes who are just standing somewhere, waiting. You could and should really move them closer to the battle, but you know that would just drain time and would probably not help anyway since the last foe is likely dead before they pop up, then things go bad and you have to do it anyway.

TB was developed for PnP because you can't handle things going on at the same time. It's completely unnecessary for computers. Pause-to-Command is fine. Really. I was close to register to their forum and suggest it myself.
 
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