KotOR 2 - Destroyed the Star Wars Universe?

Jake Muncy of Kill Screen published an interesting article where he talks about how Knights of the Old Republic II attempted to destroy the Star Wars universe.

My friend from college took a class on postcolonial fiction once, and she zealously tried to get me to read all her course materials. They were stories, she told me, about being inside and outside at the same time, and they reflected her experience as a foreign-raised American back to her. I never did. She never watched Star Wars, either, though I don’t blame her for that one. There’s a cultural gulf there we’ve never quite been able to bridge, and Star Wars isn’t a story that has an answer for that sort of gulf. Its interests are a bit too simplistic, its heroics a bit too plain, too caught up in establishment and the idea of an unbroken community.

That’s why the Jedi Exile’s story strikes me as an important one. Knights of the Old Republic II guts the mythology of Star Wars and puts it toward more transgressive purposes, revealing the vanishing points where the black and white categories it espouses start to dissolve, using the figure of homo sacer to show the way they lose their usefulness in the face of the Other. There are realities that can never be captured by our big cultural myths, and for a moment, this strange game from a decade ago shows that, revealed within the fabric of one of those very myths, as clear as the Exile in front of me.

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More information.

Interesting indeed, KotOR II certainly is an odd piece in the Star Wars Universe (we should say Legends now...) and the article does justice to Kreia, one of the best written companions in RPGs.
I don't think we'll ever have another KotOR by Obsidian though and it's a shame.

Luckra said:

Interesting indeed, KotOR II certainly is an odd piece in the Star Wars Universe (we should say Legends now…) and the article does justice to Kreia, one of the best written companions in RPGs.

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I have to admit I never saw the ending happening when I first played Knights of the Old Republic II . Unfortunately a lot of the ending material was never finished by Obsidian.

Link - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cut_...nights_of_the_Old_Republic_II:_The_Sith_Lords

I'm glad a mod was released that restored some of it.

Link - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-restored-content-mod-tslrcm/downloads

Luckra said:

I don't think we'll ever have another KotOR by Obsidian.

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I always hoped Obsidian would make another KotOR game, but Disney owns the IP. Also only EA seems to have a license to make more Star Wars games.

There was some talk about a new Star Wars RPG, but it will be different.

Thanks for the link to that article. It is well written and provided me with a new perspective on the game. I have to admit I couldn't really 'get into' this game when it first came out. It felt like I was bumbling through the story, missing information and failing to see the significance of several events. I learned only later it was released in a unfinished and hurried state. Maybe I should give it a go once more with the proper mod. This article sure provided a nice context to the story.

Obsidian's strongest points were always the grey, the well designed/written characters, the atmosphere.

If there are people old enough, they might remember how the war in the second Icewind Dale started, how the villains were not exactly villain, but people/persons pushed to their limits, humiliated, discriminated and those people chose to fight back. Due to circumstances, i never perceived the villains in IW2 as villains. IW2 did not have a story of black and white, just like neither Fallout (any of the Obsidian titles), Planescape, NWN2, Dungeon Siege 3 or Alpha Protocol. There are no true heroes in the Obsidian's games, nor true villains. It's just life, as it is. Someone's hero is another man's terrorist. Deconstructing the black and white vision is Obsidian's specialty. Their forte.

That's why, despite their usually buggy launches, Obsidian gets away with a lot. They actually offer solid, believable stories. Stories with a lot of philosophy included. I always end up with a bitter-sweet taste in my mouth after playing their games. Even if you want to play the hero card, you will end up making uncomfortable decisions, fully aware of what you had to do.

KOTOR 2 follows the Obsidian's recipe to the letter. And the only regrettable thing is that Lucas did not give them more time to turn the game into something even greater. The restoration mod dug out a lot of stuff. How much content had to be cut out to meet the deadline, we don't know. Time to reinstall, i guess and replay it with the both restoration mod (the main one and the one that restores the planet).

Thanks for the major spoiler there Couch. I guess I know what to expect if I ever decide to play KotOR II.

Your welcome.

If I remember correctly the game was released in 2004, and is close to eleven years old now. So I'm surprised to find someone who hasn't played the game yet.

JDR13 said:

I doubt I'm the only one who found that series to be overrated.

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So why complain if you have no interest in the game?

I doubt I'm the only one who found that series to be overrated.

KotOR 2 is certainly overrated, imo.

JDR13 said:

I doubt I'm the only one who found that series to be overrated.

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You're not, but I'm the only one who says Kotor 2 is underrated.

It's George Lucas himself who destroyed the SW universe for many of us with Episode I-II-III, starting in 1999. For me, in my youth, Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and The Return of the Jedi were the quintessence of sci-fi/fantasy (Star Wars premiered in my country, Hungary in 1979, right through the iron curtain - not a small feat, believe me).

On the other hand, IMO Kotor2 is a true masterpice, with an intelligent, deep story spiced up with some thought provoking philosophical aspects (just read the article in the OP, it really is worth your time).

joxer said:

You're not, but I'm the only one who says Kotor 2 is underrated.

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You're not the only one saying that. I also prefer kotor 2 to kotor 1. Obsidian showed us the hidden potential of star wars universe.

Couchpotato said:

I'm glad a mod was released that restored some of it.

Link - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-restored-content-mod-tslrcm/downloads

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I installed this mod for my last playthrough of the game a few years back and the restored content is very rough especially the droid planet. Still I'm glad something like that exists.

Luckra said:

I installed this mod for my last playthrough of the game a few years back and the restored content is very rough especially the droid planet. Still I'm glad something like that exists.

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The droid planet mod of today is much more complete than the version you probably played. In fact the gameplay is very different and newly created instead of being lifted from another part of KotOR2.

That said KotOR 2 is a wonderul CRPG, but a an unfullfilling Star Wars game, because the TESB-like ending still makes it feel incomplete without a true sequel, maybe "Star Wars - Knights of the Old Republic: The Search for Revan".

Whatever great stuff there was in KOTOR 2 was destroyed for me by the mess of the ending. I am not even sure what the ending was supposed to be, frankly. My daughter was watching as I finished it and we both looked at each other and at the same time said, "That's IT?"

I played KOTOR all the way through both as as paragon of good and as a despicable villain and enjoyed both but I couldn't bring myself to even start a second run through of KOTOR 2.

I still haven't gotten around to finishing the rather infamously polarizing KotOR2.
Whilst I did get deep into the game years ago when it came out, I simply stopped for some reason before reaching the ending. With all of the restoration mods about for it,
I really should get to it one day and find out what the fuss was about.

For what its worth, I enjoyed the deeper and decidedly "less staple like" companions and additional philosophical depth given to the Force via characters like Kreia but overall found the first game a more typically reliable Star Wars experience. I played and completed the first game as purely neutral as I could, eschewing any jedi powers at all. That was certainly a unique experience.

If I were to generalise somewhat, maybe I'd say the "child" in me liked the first game whilst the "adult" preferred the sequel, despite not ever having finished it.

I'm reading it right now - I understand that what KOTOR II did to Star Wars is like what Jimi Hendrix did to the U.S Anthem ?

Excuse me while I kiss this…Jedi???

The simple storytelling that celebrates when Luke beats the bad guys and blows up the Death Star while ignoring the possibility that a lot of innocent Stormjanitors were killed in the process.

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Do they mean that Death Star that went around blowing up populated planets???

I thought kotor 2 was a great game. I actually found it a bit creepy even the droids. The ending was a bit crap but all in all a good Obsidian game.