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JDR13 said:
Personally, I prefer to find out for myself by actually playing a game rather than automatically trusting early review scores. If I assumed all early reviews were good indicators of whether I'd like a game, I'd never have tried games like V:TM-B, Arcanum, Gothic, etc.

That said, the reviews in general for TSC are certainly not as good as I was hoping they would be. I'll find out for myself soon enough though.
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Not questioning whether any particular player can enjoy it. I just said a metacritic 7/10 average score is a huge failure for a game with that budget that wants to sell itself as triple-A.

That said, I've enjoyed games that were 7/10 and probably lower, that's quite fine.
 
Nereida said:
I just said a metacritic 7/10 average score is a huge failure for a game with that budget that wants to sell itself as triple-A.
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Not sure why you think that, but ok. A 7/10 is right around average, but you seem determined to project that TSC is a terrible game for some reason.
 
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My favorite games often score in the mid/high 60s in these review averages.
 
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If you like Survival/Crafting/Exploration, you shouldn't miss Solace Crafting for $11.24. Early Access and Procedural Generation only are negatives at the moment, but the game gets updates constantly and it is already both stable and a lot of fun.

For those that hate a ton of violence, this game may be a fit also. There's very little that is dark and gore-filled about the game. You do kill stuff, but it's like a cartoon blood splat and it falls over type thing.
 
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JDR13 said:
That is amusing indeed. It doesn't really surprise me though because Vogel makes his games for a very specific niche, and that niche has known exactly what to expect for a long time now. I also think they're probably being judged by very different standards. Vogel's games would be compared to other low-budget Indie titles.
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Hmmm. I wonder if I can work out which niche it is that Vogel is most likely to appeal to?
 
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The one that doesn't mind production values that are subpar even by indie standards and is also satisfied with replaying the same recycled stories over and over again?
 
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JDR13 said:
The one that doesn't mind production values that are subpar even by indie standards and is also satisfied with replaying the same recycled stories over and over again?
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I've played and completed six Vogel games and I can't say I've ever encountered any recycled stories. Maybe I played the wrong six?

In fact, the initial Avernum trilogy (whichever version) is a masterpiece of evolving narrative throughout the three games, each one presenting a significant new twist to the on-going narrative that all combines to create one of the most epic adventures ever created in any cRPG universe ever.

There's some forms of repetition, for sure, but only on a nit-pick level, I mean you'd be hard pressed to find any series of games where one could argue the developer wasn't just remaking the same game by some set of nit-pick standards. I've heard people say that Piranha Bites has just remade the same game for 20 years, but I would probably disagree with them, but kinda know where they were coming from, right?
 
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Right. I'm quite sure you didn't know exactly what I was talking about. ;)

I'm referring to the fact that he's well known for re-releasing the same games slightly upgraded and with a new title.

i.e. Exile = Avernum = Avernum: Escape from the Pit

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. If you like that and you're into his stuff then cool.
 
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Yes, he's a developer who doesn't abandon his work and regularly puts out updated versions of his games. I regularly hear people ask why XYZ game doesn't get an updated version. When he releases a new updated version of a game he doesn't render the old version unavailable or attempt to erase it from existence forcing you to rebuy his games if you want to play them again. There is no obligation to buy the new version and he's not being underhand by doing so and, on top of that, he still releases completely new games.

I'm struggling to see how your point should be regarded as an indication that Vogel is a developer that should 'brought to bare for his crimes' in any way whatsoever. The only issue with Vogel is the lack of graphical and sound skills/ambition, and it's the graphics that are the main issue with you anyway, yes. To which, sure, his graphics are certainly what they are, no-ones ever disagreed there, but the extent to which that is a 'problem'? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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lackblogger said:
In fact, the initial Avernum trilogy (whichever version) is a masterpiece of evolving narrative throughout the three games, each one presenting a significant new twist to the on-going narrative that all combines to create one of the most epic adventures ever created in any cRPG universe ever.
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I tried the Avernum remakes, but I couldn't seem to get into it and gave up not too far after leaving the first town. is the story that good? For me, Vogel's best games are still the Geneforge series. They have great stories, great mechanics, challenging, the whole shebang.

I also tried the Avadon game and almost completed the first one, but while it was enjoyable, I thought it was... bland. The problem with his games is that they've grown stale. Also, as people get older, they get more set in their ways which often prevent some of those flashes of genius that we saw in the earlier games.
 
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Besides what lackblogger already mentioned… Despite updating all his old games on a regular basis, he still puts out a new game roughly every 2 years, which is more frequent than most all other indie developers. So I don't see what there is to complain about there. If you don't want to play a recycled game, don't, you'll still get a brand new one the next year.

If you want to complain about the graphics and sound and whatnot, sure, but the "remastering" thing seems like a weird thing to complain about.
 
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Let's not start trying to put words in my mouth. It's not a problem at all if you're fine with it and you enjoy his stuff, like I clearly stated in my last post.
 
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I think you missed the point. Why would anyone not be fine with his regular remastering of old games? As has been mentioned, you don't have to play them and you still get a new game at the expected intervals regardless.

It sure seems like you were criticizing him for doing it, who's putting words in your mouth?
JDR13 said:
The one that doesn't mind production values that are subpar even by indie standards and is also satisfied with replaying the same recycled stories over and over again?
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Stingray said:
I think you missed the point. Why would anyone not be fine with his regular remastering of old games? As has been mentioned, you don't have to play them and you still get a new game at the expected intervals regardless.

It sure seems like you were criticizing him for doing it, who's putting words in your mouth?
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You are. Either that or you're not able to differentiate between facts and my opinion.

I was asked what niche his games appealed to, and I gave a factual answer. His games having subpar production values and recycled stories (not all but many) are not my opinion, they're facts. You just don't seem to like me pointing that out.

My opinion is that there are too many more worthwhile games for me to play than to waste time on his. As I said though, I have no problem with others liking his games.

Is that clear enough for you to grasp? I think we should allow the thread to get back on topic now.
 
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"Factual answer" :lol: Yeah, because saying his niche is people who are "satisfied with replaying the same recycled stories over and over again" is just the facts! Not an attempt to put down his games/remastering at all! Yeah, sorry, nobody's gonna buy that, certainly not me.
 
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You can play as dumb as you like. I'm cool with that. :)

I'm pretty sure most people would agree that Vogel's games are indeed a niche though, and anyone who's not a fanboy can admit what I said about the production values and the recycling of his stories.
 
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JDR13 said:
Cool. You can play as dumb as you like. :)

I'm pretty sure most people would agree that Vogel's games are a niche though.
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:lol: Trying to change the subject so you can appear right? The point was that you were obviously insulting him because he has the nerve to remaster games - despite also releasing new games on a quite reasonable schedule. It never had anything to do with you calling him niche.
 
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Stingray said:
:lol: Trying to change the subject so you can appear right? The point was that you were obviously insulting him because he has the nerve to remaster games - despite also releasing new games on a quite reasonable schedule. It never had anything to do with you calling him niche.
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I'm starting to smell some serious fanboy butthurt here.

All I said was that his games were niche and that they have subpar production values as well as pointing out the repeated "remastering". (I'm going to use the term "remaster" from this point on as to not elicit further butthurt), and you're acting like I said his games were total garbage and no one should ever play them. Bravo!

So how long would you like to drag this out?
 
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