Witcher CRPG-Meter for The Witcher

Lets measure the crpg-ingredients for "The Witcher":

To determine if a game should apply to a certain level, all the mentioned demands must be fulfilled in that level and the levels below.

CRPG Categories: Story, Character, NPC-Interaction, Gameworld, Manipulation, Combat.

Other interesting categories: Graphics, Sound, Game length, Difficulty, Perspective and Play-style.

Each category is divided into 6 frames from "none" to "Heavy" CRGP-elements giving a score from 0 to 5 points.

A games points from each category will be added together and then divided with 6 and will classify it's CRPG-score to the following list:

RPG-Elements Score 0 - < 1 point => "No CRPG"
RPG-Elements Score 1 - < 2 points => "CRPG ultra light"
RPG-Elements Score 2- < 3 points => "CRPG light"
RPG-Elements Score 3 - < 4 points => "CRPG"
RPG-Elements Score 4 - 5 Points => "CRPG Heavy"

The RPG-element categories and their 6 scores/frames (STORY, CHARACTER, NPC-INTERACTION, GAMEWORLD, MANIPULATION, COMBAT)

STORY:
questions:
- How many quests, side quests, puzzles, riddles are in the game ?
Lots of side-quests, 3 main quests (play pro order, pro elves and neutral).

- How great is the non-linearity of the game - can the quests be solved in more than one way ?
great non-linearity, many quests can be solved in more than one way.

- How many side-stories, legends in books or from NPC's are told ?
many side stories are told, some legends and secrets are increasing the alchemy knowledge

- Are there different game-endings ?
yes - at least 3 endings

is it a game with many choices and consequences ?
yes

No: 0 Points:
-The story is told in the beginning, and finished in the end, AND is not changeable during the game.

Ultra light: 1 point:
-A Few ”events” (NPC’s, happenings (Disasters, divine influences etc), Full movies interludes etc.) evolves the story, but still in a given path.

Light: 2 points:
-The story is developing through chapters or milestones, which still have an almost fixed path.
-A very few side stories/quests, OR noticeably different paths you can take to advance the same story, are available.

Medium: 3 points:
-The story develops as the game proceeds, meaning new information’s/events contribute for developing of the story on a frequent basis.
-Events (See above) impact on the story are considerable,
-The gamers actions have considerable impact on the development of the story.
-More than one path is possible in the ”main” story. Not necessarily more endings, just the possibility to choose between different “story” path’s of the “main story”. (Side quests not directly related to main story don’t count).
-A few side stories/quests besides the “main story” must be available.

More: 4 points:
-A few different endings are possible
-More than 2 ways to go through the story
-Lots of side stories/quests are required.
-Quests or tasks got often more than one solution!

Heavy: 5 points:
-Very open ended, with very high replay value regarding the story alone.
-Many events will contribute to many side / main story topics and respond to many different approaches from the player.
-Lots of books or other materials can give additional information’s about world for the interested player.

The Witcher: 5 points

CHARACTER:
questions:
- How many different characters can you play ? (race, gender, profession, ...)
Only Geralt - the Witcher

- How many different skills can be choosen for your character(s) ?
4 basic skills, 3 fighting styles for steel, 3 for silver, alchemy, and 5 magic schools

- How many different traits can be choosen for your character(s) ?
no traits

- How many levels can be reached ?
Level 37/38 is a common end level 50 is maximum.

- How much can the character(s) be changed at each level ?
all skills can be upgraded by bronze, silver and gold talents, which you get according to the difficulty level at each new
character level. Another source of talents are special mutagenes ...

- How many guilds, groups can be joined ?
pro Elves, pro Order or neutral. You can help other groups (swamp people, Druids,... as well)

- How many different ranks in these guilds can be achieved ?
No ranking with ranks, but you can achieve a reputation, with a higher reputation you can access new quests and gear

- Can you get a reputation ?
see above


No: 0 Points:
-No development other than a better weapon, armour and a few pre-distributed skill points after each chapter / milestone.

Ultra light: 1 point:
-Max 2 points to distribute on the character(s) abilities (Attributes /spells / treats / skills) each time they develop levels and a maximum of 10 upgrades(Levels) of the character(s). Learning by doing covering the same amount of development is acceptable too.

Light: 2 points:
-Max 5 points to distribute on the character(s) at least 5+ different abilities (Attributes /spells / treats / skills) each time they develop levels and at least 10+ upgrades(Levels) of the character(s). Learning by doing covering the same amount of development is acceptable too.
-A minimum of social development / regards in the game-world societies is necessary) (Wiping out a society/guild is not counting)

Medium: 3 points:
-More than 5+ points to distribute on the character(s) at least 10+ different abilities (Attributes /spells / treats / skills) each time they develop levels and at least 15+ upgrades(Levels) of the character(s). Learning by doing covering the same amount of development is acceptable too.
-The characters can have considerable social impact on more than one society / guild. (Wiping out a society/guild is not counting)

More : 4 points:
-Now a party of at least 3 fully controlled characters should be possible,
-The choice from different professions / races should give a combination of at least 10 possible different characters (Note: Different mug-shots don’t count).
-Considerable social impact on more than 2 societies / guilds is possible. (Wiping out a society/guild is not counting)

Heavy: 5 points:
-More than 10+ points to distribute on the character(s) at least 15+abilities (Attributes /spells / treats / skills) each time they develop levels and at least 20+ upgrades(Levels) of the character(s). Learning by doing covering the same amount of development is acceptable too.
-+15 different races/ professions to choose from.
-Plenty of societies/guilds which the characters have a social impact on. (Wiping out a society/guild is not counting)

The Witcher: 3 points


NPC-INTERACTION:
- How many dialogues are in the game ?
many

- How many dialogue options do you have ?
some options

- Are these options depending on your skills, alignment or deeds ?
There are depending on finished quests and deeds

- Have your answers an influence on the game ?
yes

- Have the NPC's a life of their own ?
yes

- Is trading available / is it balanced ?
yes and yes - very balanced - nice trick: no unlimited inventory, so you can't sell 20 swords from the last battle

No: 0 points:
-Few NPC's most only merchants.
-Pre-determined dialogues.

Ultra light: 1 point:
-The dialogues now have a few options, but it still contribute to the same story, AND each choice is reversible in consequence.

Light: 2 points:
-NPC's are presented in small societies, AND some of them can make a difference in further development of the game.

Medium: 3 points:
-NPC's acts truly as a part of a bigger community.
-NPC's in each society are much aware about social status also toward your characters.
-More than one society with NPC's are present in the world.

More: 4 points:
-There are fleshed out dialogue trees,
-Choices is most final and irreversible.
-NPC’s have considerable impact on the amount of Main / side- stories.

Heavy: 5 points:
-NPC's are aware of the continuously developing situation in the game-world, AND react clearly to the gamers actions and deeds.
-More than 2 bigger societies of NPC's must be available.
-Reputation, skills, alignment, attitude etc. have considerable impact on the NPC reaction.

The Witcher: 5 points

GAMEWORLD:
No: 0 points:
-The task to get from A to B has no or few options to go away from a fixed physical path.
-The game-world only inhabits monsters and a few merchants.
-The world is without (none monster) societies.

Ultra light: 1 point:
-Still a strict physical path, but with a few small societies on your way.

Light: 2 points:
-A few areas are optional on your path each chapter / milestone.
-Societies will give some quest / story material.

Medium: 3 points:
-There are at least several physical path's to choose between, AND more will open up as the game proceeds.
-Societies must give the feeling of a live community, with their own daily business, AND not just a few NPC's waiting for the hero's to come along and pass on a few quests.
-The size of the game-world must be considerable.

More: 4 points:
-Societies must be very different and have strong relation to the game-world and each other.
-We are no longer talking about a few path's when exploring the world.
-The appearance of monsters and societies must make common sense.

Heavy: 5 points:
-The world is totally open for extreme freedom to explore, AND it's your own task to decide if your character(s) are good enough
to take on the different part of the world.
-The diversity of the game-world environment must be significant.
-Day & night cycles, and different weather conditions and /or different seasons.

The Witcher: 3 points

MANIPULTION:
questions
- Can you manipulate the gameworld ? (levers, buttons, secret doors,...)
yes

- Can the gameworld manipulate your character(s) ? (traps, teleports, ...)
in general: no (with some rare exceptions)

- Can you pick up items, herbs, raw materials and then mix new potions, make new weapons,... ?
a lot

No: 0 points:
-Almost no action possible besides walk/run and combat, except maybe a very few items.
-Game-world itself is very static.

Ultra light: 1 points:
-Very few limited interactions besides walking and combat.
- A few chest barrels is scattered through the game.

Light: 2 points:
-There are a few weapons, armours, items in the game.
-Traps, levers, keys and alike is available in it's simple presence.

Medium: 3 points:
-The game-world have a considerable amount of weapons, armours, items, skills, spells in significant variations.
-The things to do will quickly fill up more than one page in your journal, AND keep it that way for most of the game.
-Custom items must be available. (Custom items are items that can’t directly be found in the game-world, the player needs to either combine more items or process an item with (Fire, acid, poison, magic, tool-masters etc (repairing items don’t count)). It’s not limited to weapons and armour only)

More: 4 points:
-You can see /influence changes in the environment, OR use it either to create/ manipulate things or get strategic possibilities in combat. (Summarised: Game-world environment itself offers several interactivity possibilities: (Chopping trees, make fire, diving in water, hide behind objects, move/destroy/manipulate objects, etc.)
– A few different ways of making custom items must be available. (See above).

Heavy: 5 points:
- Many different ways of making custom items must be available. (See above).
-Alchemist, spell-casters, smiths, herbalist and other item collectors are in heaven due to the tons of items for manipulation.
-Game-world environment itself offers many interactivity possibilities: (Chopping trees, make fire, diving in water, hide behind objects, move/destroy/manipulate objects, etc.)

The Witcher: Alchemy 5 points, the rest 3 so it is a (5+3)/2 = 4


COMBAT:
- how many tactics, strategies, spells/counterspells you have to use to survive in combat ?
(remark: this has nothing to do with real time vs. turn based combat. example: Rage of Mages: Real time and very tactical)
It is important to use the right fighting style, the right potion(s) and the right magic sign aginst one specific enemy ->
every enemy has some weak points

- Are there many different monsters, enemies ...
yes

- how good/complex is the enemy AI ?
medium

- Is it critical for combat to have a good equipment management ?
yes

- Do you need resistances against poison, fire, ... to survive ?
yes - this is very important

- is the combat balanced ?
always balanced - some very challenging and interesting boss fights


No: 0 points:
-You put your character(s) into position and they solve combat on their own, or the combat result is only affected by your skills on the keyboard.

Ultra light: 1 point:
-Real-time combat only without any pause options.
-Options are limited to the choice of the opponent to attack.

Light: 2 points:
-Character skills and/or players strategic abilities have a noticeable more impact on the outcome of the battles too.

Medium: 3 points:
-Players can more decide the pace of the battle,
-Strategic positions of the party is more vital, and the options for each character is more plentiful.
-At this point it's also important that monsters offers some diversity not only in numbers, but also in strategies necessary to win.
-Monsters AI are more than attacking the closest enemy!
- There must be more issues for your characters during combat, than loosing or giving hit-points. Ex. Poisoning, paralyse, curse etc.

More: 4 points:
-Their must be alternatives to swing your sword and cast a spell during combat Ex. Skills, traps, spells, treats, or items to use in battles.
-Different strategies are necessary for survival.

Heavy: 5 points:
-Each characters can be controlled individual down to the smallest detail and in any pace wanted.
-The monsters must offer a lot of difference both in numbers, abilities, battle environment, which must offer quite a diversity in battle approaches.
- Monsters AI are considerable.

The Witcher: 3 points


OTHER NON-RPG RELATED INTERESTING CATEGORIES:

GRAPHICS:

An “Year” of evaluation should follow the graphics score!
We try not to express how beautiful the graphics is (It's difficult to separate entirely), just how many specific graphic technology elements it contains (Like shadows, lightning etc), and it's standard compared to others at the time of the review!

0 points: Text only.
1 point: Static pictures, and/ or low 2D resolution in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.
2 points: Higher 2D resolution in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.
3 points: Mediocre 3D or 2D with up to date standard compared to others in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.
4 points: Fully 3D with up to date standard compared to others in relation to other games in the year of evaluation.
5 points: Fully 3D. Absolute among the best in it's category, with a few ground breaking content compared to others at the time it is reviewed.

The Witcher: 5 points (year 2007)

SOUND:

This determines the amount and the degree of acoustic technologies in the sound, not directly the quality or realism of the sound, and not how many different sound boards it covers.

0 Points: No sound.
1 point: Mono sound.
2 points: Very sparse and basic Stereo sound
3 points: Plentiful Stereo sound
4 points: Support of more than 2 speakers, and considerable environmental sounds.
5 points: Fully real surround sound support (At least 5.1), with ultra real 3D feeling

The Witcher: 4 points

LENGTH:

An average length is used for calculation, a second score in “( )” for maximum hours searching under every stone and solving every quest could be mentioned if it brings the game into another score-area.

0 points: Under 8 hours.
1 point: 8 - 20 hours.
2 points: 20- 50 hours.
3 points: 50- 80 hours.
4 points: 80 - 150 hours.
5 points: over 150 hours.

The Witcher: 3 (4) points

DIFFICULTY:

0 points: No brain teasers at all, only walk /run and hack 'n slash
1 point: Easy brain teasers that don't slow the game pace down considerable.
2 points: Some problems (Riddles, events, combat, NPC's etc) can make you stop for a short while until you find the relative easy solution!
3 points: Not all problems are obvious in solution, but there are more possibilities to get help. The amount of problems must also be considerable.
4 points: Some problems can't be solved without help/things from other places or without some in vain tries first!
5 points: The game is loaded with more or less hard problems, and many problems can only be solved by extensive brain use!

The Witcher: 3 points - combat difficulty can be adjusted.

PERSPECTIVE:

A Non-score category:

TXT: No perspective (e.g. no graphics), text games.
FIX: Fixed viewpoint (Not changeable).
FLEX: Flexible distance/orientation . The viewpoint distance can be changed and/or the screen can be rotated.
ISO: Isometric view ( Any angle between vertical top-down and 1.st person view, but still seen from above the party/ characters.
SHOULDER: The close overhead / shoulder view, where the gamers viewpoint follow the character(s) heading, with a look just above the head/shoulders of your character(s), and the character(s) can be seen in the button of the picture.
FP: The 1.st person view where gamers viewpoint is the same as looking out of the eyes of the character(s)
BIRD: From the sky the players has a vertical down view point on the game-world.
SIDE: View points like Platform games or the elder Kings/Space quest games

The Witcher: ISO and SHOULDER


PLAYSTYLE:

A non-score category.

SP: Single player
MP: Multiplayer
OP: Online play possible
MMO: Massive multiplayer online!
Co: Co-operative multiplayer possibility
PvP: Player versus player mode in multiplayer mode.
P: Parties possible.
S: Single character game

The Witcher: SP/S

TECHNICAL STATE
The Witcher: is stable on XP Systems with 2GB Ram and a newer gfx-card and cpu, some Vista users report problems

Conclusion The Witcher:

RPG Factors: Story: 5, Character: 3, NPC-Interaction: 5, Gameworld: 3, Manipulation: 4, Combat: 3.
RPG Score:= 3.83 => CRPG
Other Factors: Graphics: 5 (2007), Sound: 4, Length:3 (4), Difficulty:3, Perspective: ISO & SHOULDER, Style: SP-S.

Bottom line:
A very good game for crpg and adventure fans. Cool main character, choices and consequences everywhere, very good story with different pathes, interesting npcs, nice alchemy system, good minigames.
A second play through is a must. -> two thumbs up.

Wow. Better than many reviews online. Splendid job sir.

Has any game ever been made that would score 5/5 by the above criteria? Is it even possible?

I think this is a reasonably objective score card, until it gets into the high end.

The score card reveals a bias towards open-ended design as opposed to story driven design.

These are not design modes where one is necessarily better than the other; but the OP has taken a stand about a design issue and gussied it up to look like an objective criteria.

How open-ended design can be a "5" under "story" is beyond my ability to fathom. Oblivion's story is good - KotOR'1 story is bad?

Try to advocate that one at a writer's meeting and tell me how that goes for you.

The same bias is revealed in the Gameworld analysis part. Open-ended best - story driven game = lesser beast.

The idea of "higher is better" and the inclusion of "open-ended" as the top score belies a heavy bias. The score card suggests in and of itself that Oblivion style gameworlds are "best", while more restricted, story-driven worlds are to be looked down upon as lesser things.

This is, simply put, not an opinion I share. This is a yardstick held out to be objective, which hides its judgments within the criteria used to craft it.

Agree that this is not objective, but you understand the measure to which its judged. (compared with fz.se poorly incompetent written review! .

Since there never will be a "objective view" ever of an subjective experience, this is the best thing to do. Be pretty upfront, what you think measure.

And then its always up to the reader to read behind the lines.

regarding given low mark for story. It says what hiddenx prefer.

Me like linear story where the designer take everything out from the media in telling me the most enjoyable story ever. So for me, openended like oblivion, daggerfall, morrowind, is clearly on the minus side. But when games like oblivion and withcer brings order into chaos by marking on the map what i am suppose to do, i can live with it.

I do not think that the way story is marked by any means is a great rpg, or not. But i think it helps me to understand hiddenx grading. And 5 is a more important to him then me.

I like his earlier crpg-meter. I think the watch should adopt them to the site?

Why not publishing them as a feature??

For those who don´t know: The CRPG-Meter was developed throughout a long discussion on RPGDot a few years ago.

Just a reminder:

A score of 5 in a category is not "better" than 4,3,2,1 - all it says is:

The game fulfills every (subjective) crpg-level that have been determined by some hardcore crpg players.

For a casual crpg player a 3 rating in each category could be much more fun to play.

The objectivity in this test is, that it tells you against what it is measuring each category.


Very close to 5 was Wizardry 8.

Steel_Wind said:

How open-ended design can be a "5" under "story" is beyond my ability to fathom. Oblivion's story is good - KotOR'1 story is bad?

Click to expand...

I can think of one way. It would be a lot of work to do, but "a lot of work" != "impossible."

Imagine a wide-open world à la Gothic or Oblivion.

Imagine that different areas in it have different degrees of danger, à la Gothic 2.

OK, so far your ability to explore is limited by your survivability: poke your nose where it doesn't belong, and you'll find it at the back of your skull. As a side effect, you wouldn't really have much to do in an area if you managed to get there too early: you're not significant enough to matter. Nothing new here yet, right?

Imagine a tightly written story (with a few branches) that gently leads you through this world, à la The Witcher.

Now, imagine that events in this tightly written story *affect* this world. For example, suppose you decided to side with the Scorpion King against the Pharaoh, there was a huge battle, Memphis was sacked, slaves were liberated, nobles were enslaved. You get new people in positions of power (=new quests, new quest-givers) while old ones lost their positions (=quests failed). You've done more or less what the more linear, more closed-off games do as a matter of course: opened up a new location while closing off an old one.

Then imagine that this same mechanic was at work in smaller, subtler ways all through the game: achieving status would close off some quests and open others and change the way people relate to you; one set of choices would lead to a shift in the balance of power which would again change attitudes, close off some branches, and open others.

In other words, you would be steered much the same way as in a linear, story-driven game, only the steering would be much subtler than a locked door, quarantined city, collapsed bridge -- or that old favorite, the invisible wall.

The openness of the world will add a little spice to the experience, and of course you can make use of it in the story too -- for example, if you start out in the slums of Memphis as a petty thief, acquire a lot of riches and glory, and then return, your experience of the place (quests, encounters, attitudes) should be very different. In game plumbing terms, the area resets itself based on your level (*not* the same as auto-leveling monsters up to you). Again not unlike opening up a new area in a more linear game.

I can't see any reason why this wouldn't be doable. Yes, it would be a lot of work, and no, it wouldn't revolutionize the gaming experience. But would I like it? Hell yes. Do I think it's going to happen some time pretty soon? Hell yes to that too. Do I hate story-driven, closed-off games? Hell no.

Incidentally, this reminds me a bit of the "but I can't kill the children" debate. Now, I don't *want* to kill the children and I'm very unlikely to try, so a game mechanic that actually stops me from killing the children should not make any difference to me. Yet it does, because it removes the element (or illusion) of choice from that particular decision. Same thing with the closed vs. open game world design -- the world may be set up so that it's extremely un-fun to go where I'm not supposed to go, but the knowledge that I *can* walk into the desert and die of thirst should I choose to do so does make a difference to the experience, even if I actuall *won't* do it.

Gorath said:

For those who don´t know: The CRPG-Meter was developed throughout a long discussion on RPGDot a few years ago.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the information.

Excellent work! - i am quite 'at home' with this easy to understand format.

HiddenX's review of G3 was in the same format, it cuts out the media-ised hype which we often see and instead focuses the games elements in a form that is *comparative* from the same source with little jargon.

I see these as technical type reviews which have near-surgical accuracy, this foundation leaves us able to compare each element with its counterpart in other games.

For example ---> (refer to G3 review)
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=814

Story
G3 = 3
TW = 5

Character
G3 = 3.5
TW = 3

Npc - Interaction
G3 = 4.5
TW = 5 ..........etc' etc'

Imagine a whole database (if it was ever possible) of great games layed out in this analysis form, probably too much work to achieve but at least HiddenX is giving us the main game titles..."thankyou" HiddenX.

The same argument could be made about character customization vs story. The more character customization you allow, the less the story becomes about the character and suddenly story-telling begins to suffer. Wizardy 8's main plot was about collecting 3 artifacts and then becoming a god, hardly what I would call innovative, and it lacked all the nuancies that are tied to a specific character.

Sure, you can go on as a designer and write a different storyline for every different character that the player may come up with. Even for minor details, say, if I choose a different hair colour I get a different storyline. This would be again a lot of work and I'm not sure how the results could justify that. To make an Oblivion gameworld interesting it would probably take 6 more years of development, but correct if I'm wrong.

Ultimately the gains are minor and unecessary and I can only see things such as these happening only when hardware/software will be more advanced and gaming in general more popular to justify more money and manhours per game. And even then this would only amount to a minor advance in the genre.

That is why whilst I agree with HiddenX's distinct categories, I think it serves no real purpose to take an average.

Maybe you should do the discussion about the RPG-Meter system in another thread. I think we had one somewhere in which the latest status was posted.

The system as a whole is quite reliable. So don´t forget to suggest an improvement if you criticize a category. Otherwise your point might be overlooked in the next revision for formal reasons.

It would be possible to add an RPG-Meter score to every review. In HTML, not as part of a DB. Our readers would need an article with a detailed explanation though.

Creating a DB is a good idea. Unfortunately Myrthos doesn´t have much time to work on the site. For the time being you could of course create a thread for every RPG you want to discuss and come to a consensus.

Hidden X: Longest post ever written = 5 !! :lol:

Good stuff - thanks for sharing!

Gorath said:

Maybe you should do the discussion about the RPG-Meter system in another thread. I think we had one somewhere in which the latest status was posted.

Click to expand...

Which thread would that be? I did a search and could only come up with this one.

The original thread: "Some rpg elements"

some criticism by Mr. _Elander from rpgcodex

interesting, too:
List CRPG ingredients by their importance to you.

I remember having read one of those threads in the past. Thanks very much for the links, HiddenX, reading these should keep me busy for a while

HiddenX said:

Just a reminder:

A score of 5 in a category is not "better" than 4,3,2,1 - all it says is:

The game fulfills every (subjective) crpg-level that have been determined by some hardcore crpg players.

For a casual crpg player a 3 rating in each category could be much more fun to play.

The objectivity in this test is, that it tells you against what it is measuring each category.


Very close to 5 was Wizardry 8.

Click to expand...

Ahh. Hardcore REAL RPG players like the open ended stuff - but for just "casual" players, 3 would be good?

Now I understand.

And 5 is not meant to be taken as "better" than 3?

:rolls eyes:

:smiles:

Exactly - the open ended / multipath / free gameworld stuff is very close to the very open pen and paper rpgs.

A 5 in the GAMEWORLD category is better than 3, if and only if you prefer open gameworlds.

BTW: Oblivion would NOT score very good in this CRPG-Meter.
Open world: yes
but
Choices and consequences: No -> you can be Master in all guilds at the same time
Do you need a combat strategy: No (Autoleveling)
Do you have an impact on the world: A bit
Can the world manipulate you: No
Dialogue system: broken
Shop model: broken
...