TDE 5th Edition

Hello, everyone,

well, since I'm no more active in the official TDE forums I didn't notice these news :

Ulisses, the current license holder or even owner of The Dark Eye (TDE) is working on an 5th edition.

The announcement to this was seemingly made at the RatCon, the TDE "house convention", so to say. [The name came originally from the German town of Ratingen, I once read. Ratingen is not too far away from where TDE started, so to say.)

It seems to be an early stage, still, but everyone is allowed to contribute with their opinions and thoughts and propositions.
What will be used of this in the 5th edition is unclear to me.

The TDE 5 discussion forums are here : http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/forum/viewforum.php?f=186

I still don't know much about it, since I discovered this only today.

Alrik

Just taking a quick glance at the forum, it seems people are tired of TDE getting more and more high fantasy.

FAQ (German language) : http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/neuigkeiten/2013-10-09-faq-das-schwarze-auge-5/

Fan-made Poll : http://www.regelwerkstatt.de/umfrage-1

I've only ever played TDE in CRPGs. Do you have any experience with using it for PnP? It seems like TDE would be very number crunchy.

The 4th edition indeed is very "number-crunchy", but earlier editions not so much.

The problem is, that most fans like the current rule set to be so. There are quite some vocal forum users in the official forums who are *heavily* against making the rules system less complicated & math-heavy ...

With a little bit of good luck you can still get the English-language 4th edition core rule book, but the current state is 4.1 , untranslated yet, as far as I know.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Dark-Eye-...8&qid=1381689337&sr=8-3&keywords=the+dark+eye

What you can *also* do, is, to use the both Drakensang games as a kind of "source material", since almost everything there has an optional "explanation sheet" accessible via right-clicking. And this doesn't only mean armor & weapons, but also ingredients, potions, and even NPCs, animals & creatures !

The beta-version of the rules set will soon be sent out as PDFs. There will be 2 adventures accompanying it.

Then, extensive beta-testing will start.

I think I read that 2014 ? TDE has its 30 years anniversary.

So, how's TDE 5e shaping up? What's the direction Ulysses has taken with it? Still math-heavy and with the triple roll skill checks, I'd guess. How about character creation, point-based or random rolls? Deeply concerned about the comment above about TDE getting more and more high fantasy, I truly hope not. (Note: As all the info about TDE 5e is in German and I don't really speak it beyond bare basics, the links provided above don't really help.)

By the way, I went and got me the English TDE 4e book awhile back and have been leafing through it. The system is solid and sufficiently "crunchy", but I really hate the triple roll system (as I've said before) and that basically cripples the system for me with regards to tabletop play. Also, unfortunately the English rules don't have the rules for priests and "divine magic," which is a big let down. The writers mention these rules will come in a separate book, which of course was never released (never ever do a rule book without all the basic rules in it - grrr!). Out of curiosity, how would the TDE 4 rules for priestly magic work?

I assume TDE 5e beta is a closed one and not a free for all? Are you in it Alrik? Will you be our Deep Throat (as in Watergate, not the movie)?!

The beta will be open, as far as I know.

But no, I didn't read too much about it yet, since I've been turning away from the Ulisses forums as I found them tedious and invaded by the same folks that still prefer TDE to be as complex as possible, cynically put. And because I have a monthly pen & paper grioup as well, which I enjoy very much.

The goal is - was - to make the 5th edition as complex as the 4th edition - but more intuitively to play, and not with that many details.

However, AFTER the work finished on the 5th edition it is planned to do an separete Newbie rules set ("DSA-Klassik"), which is - as far as I can remember - only basically or even loosely based on the full 5th edition rules set.

In short : The traditionalists have won again.

The system will be more modular, though. Not this mish-mash, as it exists today. The basic book is meant to be really the basic stuff for EVERYTHING. Any additional stuff is meant to be published in additional books.

One rather critical blog entry (in German language) formulates the problem as this (roughly translated by me) :

"Simple rules are for Newbies.
Complex rules are for experienced ones.

Experienced roile-players who like simple rules have no place in this concept as the imagine of complex play being possible with simple rules."

Taken from this here : http://www.arkanil.de/2013/10/warum-dsa5-kaum-aenderungen-bringt/





Bottom line : Meanwhile some of those who would prefer a more simple rules system look over towards the new RPG called "Splittermond" ...

Alrik Fassbauer said:

And because I have a monthly pen & paper grioup as well, which I enjoy very much.

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Which edition are you playing in your group?

4.1 as far as I know.

The game master wanted to focus rather on the play than on the rules, that's why we are mostly playing with "lightweight" rules, despite haviong 1-2 "number-crunchers" in the group, and 2 players with problems in maths.

Setting and Athmosphere is more important to us.

We are playing the "Drachenchronik" since 1 ? year now and have closed the first book last time (I couldn't participate then because I was ill).

It sucks that the current license holders aren't going to translate DSA in English. My friends and I love the setting, but it's not enough to have the 3 4th ed books when they mention additional books providing more classes and other character options.

If I had the money and knowledge, I would probably request legal permission to start a Kickstarter campaign for an English translation of 4th and possibly 5th edition.

Don't bother with KS.
If DSA (whatever that is) gets enough number of fans, fans will translate it and share all over internet for free. Yea, it's not a proper thing to do and some things will probably be wrongly translated, but hey, if there is a demand and you don't want to translate the thing yourself and then sell it, your loss.

DSA = TDE

I don't have much to add except to say that I recently played Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny and I quite like the TDE system. I like how characters have phobias (one party member even threatened to abandon a dungeon because he was claustrophobic , and there are a ton of skills/abilities that can be upgraded every time you level up.

I also love, love, LOVE the use of practical items to overcome obstacles. Rope, rope ladders, grappling hooks, etc. Blankets to keep warm in the winter. That game and TDE system as a whole has a ton of potential.

In TDE 4 this gets even better. You don't have the 7 negative attributes anymore, but instead during character creation you can chose between a lot of (50 each?) so called "advantages" and "disadvantages".
Advantages are something like D&D background feats, where you have some innate positive traits, like having a talent for dual whielding, better magical talent, being handsome or just having a nice voice.
It's the same with disadvantages, but you gain negative traits instead. Here again you can chose phobias, ugliness, having only one arm, being untalented for a certain group of skills and so on.
Of course you can't chose freely, the advantages cost points where the disadvantages give points. In the end you need to have a point balance.

This adds so much to the characters, when you can have explicite weaknesses, making the characters more credible. It's really fun during P&P. Haven't seen something like this in any other rule set.

Morrandir said:

In TDE 4 this gets even better. You don't have the 7 negative attributes anymore, but instead during character creation you can chose between a lot of (50 each?) so called "advantages" and "disadvantages".
Advantages are something like D&D background feats, where you have some innate positive traits, like having a talent for dual whielding, better magical talent, being handsome or just having a nice voice.
It's the same with disadvantages, but you gain negative traits instead. Here again you can chose phobias, ugliness, having only one arm, being untalented for a certain group of skills and so on.
Of course you can't chose freely, the advantages cost points where the disadvantages give points. In the end you need to have a point balance.

This adds so much to the characters, when you can have explicite weaknesses, making the characters more credible. It's really fun during P&P. Haven't seen something like this in any other rule set.

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Dang, that sounds awesome! I'd love to see that rule set in a video game RPG.

By the way, how is the game Drakensang? I hear that uses TDE system. Is it a pretty deep RPG or more of an action-adventure?

Morrandir said:

DSA = TDE

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I feel so stupid now. And ignorant. Honestly. It's just I forgot.

Fluent said:

By the way, how is the game Drakensang? I hear that uses TDE system. Is it a pretty deep RPG or more of an action-adventure?

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It's an epic RPG, has a sequel that is in fact a prequel and is a musthave/mustplay game. Action adventure? No, it's completely different from all Tomb Raider games.
Buy now. Install yesterday!

Fluent said:

Dang, that sounds awesome! I'd love to see that rule set in a video game RPG.

By the way, how is the game Drakensang? I hear that uses TDE system. Is it a pretty deep RPG or more of an action-adventure?

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It is - in my opinion, and that is of an Drakensanf fan ;D - role-playing at its best !

At least with Drakensang 2 … Drakensang 1 is a bit more combat-heavy.

It uses a mixture bnetween the editions 4.0 & 4.1 , with a few adaptations to be more accessible as a video game - the regeneratioon of astral energy, for example.

There also exist "clue books" for both games, albeit 1. being in German language only, and 2. being rather hard to find nowadays.

joxer said:

Buy now. Install yesterday!

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One of the few times I really agree with you !

Intesting post, I have always wanted to know more about DSE but I don't speak german. Sounds like it's worth checking out in depth.

Drakensang 2: River of time is great, a bit light on choices and consequences, but with great atmosphere; the AddOn is one of the worst games ever though.

Drakensang 1 is... shallow. When I first played it I was disgusted, only after years of RPG Drought I managed to play through it. It is ok if you don't mind a generic, rail roaded plot and lots of filler combat. It has an epic scale though, and the character-system is good.