Kingmaker Pathfinder Kingmaker release thread

Zogar Sag said:

Lol:lol: Maybe remind this to yourself everytime whenever you come across game you dont like or game mechanics you dont like?

Click to expand...

In this case I applaud the devs for trying something new and executing well on it. Not every RPG needs to be the same way, and if you truly enjoy the genre you should different styles a try (and I already do, I play pretty much everything RPG).

But a timed quest feature is an upgrade over the games I mentioned, where time doesn't matter at all, you can abuse rest, relax picking mushrooms while supposedly some big bad evil is rampaging the land with his demons. Oh, that only happens when you go to this certain area to continue the main quest. Bo-ring!

New? What new? Timed quests was done before, most of other things in Pathfinder looks stolen (ok maybe the word is too strong here) from other existing games, like Pillars of Eternity ( a lot), Baldurs Gate , Neverwinter Nights. Maybe it's a fine mix, you like, but I hardly see there anything new, fresh and innovative. It's the same old again just in different sauce.

Zogar Sag said:

New? What new? Timed quests was done before, most of other things in Pathfinder looks stolen (ok maybe the word is too strong here) from other existing games, like Pillars of Eternity ( a lot), Baldurs Gate , Neverwinter Nights. Maybe it's a fine mix, you like, but I hardly see there anything new, fresh and innovative. It's the same old again just in different sauce.

Click to expand...

Mmk. Get back to me when you play it a bit and can actually form a valid opinion.

TheRealFluent said:

Well maybe try to adapt to different styles.

Click to expand...

Man, after all these years of my spamming about mushrooms' inferiority you're suggesting - adapt?

Look, the game is installed on my PC and is waiting. I asked about a certain steam user review and azarhal had a pretty much okay answer why some things are not nearly as bad as suggested in the steam review. This is not a case when I ask if something is worth buying, I have the game already, I just wanted to know more about it so I don't get heavily dissapointed by design choices - at least now I know what to expect. Well… Unless something changes by patching, ofc.

But in case of timer based gameover, sorry. I can't stand it and that won't change. Even if the rest of the game is fantastic.

TheRealFluent said:

Mmk. Get back to me when you play it a bit and can actually form a valid opinion.

Click to expand...

Sure, we can talk and maybe I even take you serious sometime, but only when you take off those rose colored glasses of yours for once.

Zogar Sag said:

Sure, we can talk and maybe I even take you serious sometime, but only when you take off those rose colored glasses of yours for once.

Click to expand...

Which ones would those be? The ones where I focus on the positive aspects instead of the negatives like you? Everyone knows the game has bugs but it seems my positive outlook just annoys you. Maybe you should just ignore my posts from now on because it's not really going to change.

joxer said:

But in case of timer based gameover, sorry. I can't stand it and that won't change. Even if the rest of the game is fantastic.

Click to expand...

Well that's a shame, because the way it's implemented is a step up and an incline for future CRPGs. You can always turn on Invincible Kingdom if you don't want a game over from poor kingdom management, but you can't turn off the main quest timers because the game is based around that. You have to protect your barony, it's not some RPG where trolls invade and you have unlimited time to deal with it. That's the point of Kingmaker, i.e. being a Baron and protecting your citizens. Otherwise the whole kingdom feature would be worthless.

If I put 20 skill points into nature lore, the game damn well should EXPECT me to pick flowers!

All jokes aside, with respect to the rest of the review quoted by joxer:

- The UI is nothing special, but it's not something that PoE came up with either.

- I do not really see a problem with movement speed in general, but I'm sometimes annoyed when a rainy storm starts and everyone goes down to snails pace.

- Yes, placement and scaling of monster encounters is sometimes not nice. On the other hand, there's only so much you can do about that. I'm certainly glad they did not resort to auto-leveled monsters. Or extremely linear game design. Both are poor ways to deal with these issues.
But overall, the game's far from to hard. In fact, some mechanics easily break the game in the other direction. Such as pets-only parties.

- Some issues with the magic system are inherent to nearly every single computer RPG based on PnP rules. The limited amount of uses is certainly something I do not always like, but you can easily plan around that.
But the complaint about stuff like friendly fire with color spray … come on, the guy's just too lazy for proper positioning. The game even has controlled fireballs. And "precise bombs". That complaint is just stupid. Take away friendly fire from all AoE's, and you remove lots of the tactical planning. Would be stupid.

- The alignment system: I agree. But that's just how these things work in Pathfinder (and D&D). It's not in particular a problem of PF:Kingmaker.

- The dialogues: I ran into some cases where I would liked to have more options. But you can not have the full spectrum of alignment-specific responses in a human-designed game. I can live very well with what we have here.

- Kingdom management: Yup. Problematic.

- Advisors: I'd like the game to be more transparent about how they work. Larger choice would also be nice.
Honestly, why not use mercenary advisors, with preset responses based on their alignment? Mercenaries are quite expensive, so I think that would be well balanced.

Cacheperl said:

If I put 20 skill points into nature lore, the game damn well should EXPECT me to pick flowers!

Click to expand...

That's why time moves very sloooooowly on the maps themselves. It only advances time quickly when traveling or resting, two things you should plan ahead for and manage well.

I thought it advances slowly so you can watch the grass, I mean flowers, grow.

UI: Erm, it's not "copied" from PoE. It look similar but there are certainly differences. Not sure what the reviewer is expecting for games that are created in same engine and are same genre.

balance: Some people seem to expect all mobs in a same map should be same/similar level and that you should be able to clear everything at once - this isn't the case with Kingmaker. The developers are expecting you to come back and clear more challenging enemies later on, which I really liked. Definitely more realistic. Had to wait quite a bit to slash down Crag Linnorm hiding in caves next to a giant bridge Most of maps are available (I.e. Don't disappear) from one chapter to another chapter, so there is really no reason to be fussed over this.

magic system: Agree with what azarhal said - That should be made toward Pathfinder pnp and not the game.

alignment:again, agree with azarhal - sound like someone misunderstood how it works. It's not a "always pick neutral good because I'm neutral good" system, it's a "you have these choices, they all have impact, pick one" system (reminds me of NWN: Shadow of the Undrentide).

dialogues: First, I didn't get an impression companions are written by several different people. Sounds like he is confusing character development with "these are written by several different people who have different ideas of companions". Second, I thought dialogue options given to me are quite flexible. I'm playing NG alignment, and most of the time I get to choose from lawful good to neutral responses, sometimes even evil options. So again, no idea wtf that reviewer is on about.

Kingdom management: I think this is most problematic part of the game and I understand why reviewer didn't like it. This really needs better tutorial and explanation,

Advisors: Why the hell is reviewer killing/dismissing advisors??? I agree that there is rather limited pool of advisors but… Killing/dismissing them intentionally makes it worse???

The game is completed by several people. I saw screenshots etc from those who finished the game on various forums.

I also have no issues with the movement speed.

joxer said:

Not liking is not the same as hating.

Click to expand...

Yes, it's loud and clear you hate this game. I understand it's not your GOTY and that's fine but I'm not understanding how this game has phone game design?

joxer said:

I thought it advances slowly so you can watch the grass, I mean flowers, grow.

Click to expand...

Actually, it's so you can watch the cute bunnies and corgi puppies moving around.

purpleblob said:

Yes, it's loud and clear you hate this game. I understand it's not your GOTY and that's fine but I'm not understanding how this game has phone game design?

Click to expand...

Eh? No. I hate doomsday design.
The game itself I can't hate - didn't touch it yet. Maybe I will maybe I won't, without trying I can't judge it. But by the time I start it, some modder will probably show mercy and remove phonegamey timers. It still doesn't mean the mod will make me vote for it when goty poll appears, already have three awsome titles that don't kill the game just because I was lollygagging.

I'm sure you'll like the game. Seriously.

And a word on the timers: while I see that the general concept is worthy of discussion, in PK it definitly is NOT implemented phonegamey. The quest timers are implicit (journal: "we should go there immediately!") and force you to actually read and use your brain which I'd argue is not a requirement for phone games.
(I'm in chapter 4 and already had two situations where it's indicated that you can solve only one of two problems because both need immediate attention and action. By pursuing the correct one first and immediatly following the second without getting distracted you're actually able to solve both.)

The task timers in kingdom management are (mostly?) indeed explicit (task description: "you should handle that before dd.mm.") but still require judgement abut which task is more important for your kingdom.

That said the kingdom management (including the timers) should have been introduced much better.

My further critique is that the game fails to communicate (implicitly or explicitly) when you really have time to just explore and hang around (aka Baldur's Gate 2 Chapter 2).

As long as nothing urgent is happening, you're free to hang around and adventure a bit. Just don't spend like, months or weeks away from the capital, but if you do you can click the (!)Kingdom icon when it pops up to make sure nothing too important is going on.

This might interest a few of you as the patch plans have changed again.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker Hotfix Patch 1.0.14

Starting from this hotfix, we are changing our development approach. We have got more than one thousand bugs exterminated by now in the 1.1 version of the game. All of those are waiting to be checked and released. To release the 1.1 version we have to refocus the team effort from making frequent hotfixes to working on this big patch. It would take a whole week at minimum to test every aspect of our complex game. That means we need to reduce the frequency of hotfixes and the amount of fixes they consist of during the next 1-2 weeks (although we will definitely attempt to address the most critical issues whether they arise).

Once the Release 1.1 version will be close to stable, we plan to make it available for everyone in special beta branch. We would welcome those players who are interested to check the new version before it released. The detailed instruction how to play the Release 1.1 beta will be available soon.

Click to expand...

Yup, seems to me like they are taking quite an proactive approach to slaying evil bugs and other issues. For now though, I'm going to leave this one on pause and let them continue the fine work, I'll pick it up down the road and will just have to hope that I remember where I was.

joxer said:

A game is not supposed to be a job with deadlines!

Click to expand...

Here! Here! Well said.

wolfgrimdark said:

Here! Here! Well said.

Click to expand...

Not really. No deadlines means no challenge to keep your barony in order. What sense has it made in RPGs where trolls are invading and you are halfway across the map not caring because you want to clear the map? This is pretty much 99% of RPGs out today. If you want that experience play Skyrim or even Pillars of Eternity. It's okay for a game to implement a timer as a challenge aspect. Not all games need to be the same.

By the way, I'm already in Chapter 3 with the new character and am freely roaming the map doing all sorts of side area maps because I have plenty of time to do so. The game isn't that demanding as some made it out to be. You get plenty of advance warning when sh*t hits the fan.

Also, the whole game is built around time. You can't abuse rest to get your spells back easily all the time. You actually have to *gasp* use scrolls and items in your inventory! Instead of hoarding them like again in 99% of RPGs. It's a good way to deal with item inventory too, among other things.

It's entirely possible to have timers related to the kingdom (events, projects etc), but no hidden timers on the quests. There's no real reason for one to require the other.