RPGWatch Feature - Pathfinder: Kingmaker Review

I was out of the loop for a while and only recently started playing this game. I'm currently at the end of chapter 2 and have to say that it was a fantastic surprise. Very complex and rewarding with enough meat to sink your teeth into for a long time. There's just so much to tinker with. I love it.

I got the first DLC, might be getting the second one depending on some factors and am not interested in the third one. But with ~40 bucks it was already well worth the money.

While I luckily haven't encountered any bugs (started playing with patch 1.3) the game does have some weaknesses. Loading times can become excessive the further you explore (Pillars of Eternity had the same issue), which also ties into the kingdom management being more of a drag rather than an easygoing diversion, and the itemization could really be better*. On the plus side I really dig the character building options.

For DLC I'd prefer if they simply flesh out the base game some more with more classes, a crafting system, more portraits and so on. A witch for example would fit very well into the setting (c.f. characters from Berzerk), but isn't available.


*) Mods can ameliorate some of the issues. Here are the ones I'm using:
  • Respecialization: Build your NPCs like you want, fix wrong choices. IMHO every party based RPG with recruitable NPCs should have BG-like "Level 1 NPCs" built in.
  • Exit to Map: lets you go directly to the world map from any area.
  • Cleaner: helps keep savegames a bit smaller
  • Bag of Tricks: cheat tool I'm using for minor conveniences (I overlooked an artifact piece on some map and instead of traveling to three different branching maps looking in every corner again I just gave it to me).
  • Vendor Progression: makes vendors get better stuff based on your kingdom stats, which in turn makes kingdom management more rewarding and should fix some class builds (I'm playing a wizard who has very limited access to spells otherwise, defeating the purpose of the class)
  • Scale XP. Supposedly lets your 6-man party finish the game with level 20 as opposed to the usual ~17. Set to exponential with factor 1.4. Early level progression stays more or less the same, which is just fine since they seem to be properly balanced.
More mods at NexusMods.
 
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I have checked out respecialization as I wanted to replace one feat I chose for Valerie with another. It seems to only allow putting characters back to lvl 0 and removing single abilities, but not adding new ones.
 
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[*] Respecialization: Build your NPCs like you want, fix wrong choices. IMHO every party based RPG with recruitable NPCs should have BG-like "Level 1 NPCs" built in.

Definitely agree with this. One has to wonder, if they had just stuck with a party based game with no NPCs and put all that development time from NPCs into the end game how things might have turned out. It's a shame CRPGs ever went down this playable NPC route to begin with. Even in table-top games, DM-run PCs were always a drag on the table and story unless the DM was especially good.
 
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It's a shame CRPGs ever went down this playable NPC route to begin with. Even in table-top games, DM-run PCs were always a drag on the table and story unless the DM was especially good.
I do like what NPC companions bring the story. Using a fully customized party without NPCs can tend to feel a bit empty, like in PoE or BG where you'd miss out on major parts of the game. I'm a proponent of the best of both worlds though: NPC party members that can be customized a lot.

I want fleshed out characters with voices, personalities, quests and interpersonal relations and interactions, but I also want to be able to level them up from 0, assign them a custom class (within limits) that fit their personality or alignment, change their portrait and change their name (!).
 
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I do like what NPC companions bring the story. Using a fully customized party without NPCs can tend to feel a bit empty, like in PoE or BG where you'd miss out on major parts of the game. I'm a proponent of the best of both worlds though: NPC party members that can be customized a lot.

I want fleshed out characters with voices, personalities, quests and interpersonal relations and interactions, but I also want to be able to level them up from 0, assign them a custom class (within limits) that fit their personality or alignment, change their portrait and change their name (!).
Does not really work. Valerie story does not work if she is not longer this failed paladin that is now just a good looking fighter. If you lower her Charisma to 10, raise her wisdom and Dex and turn her into a Monk, now she is a completely different character.

Turn Harrim into a Druid and his story also makes no sense now.
And those that can be freely changed without story to ruin are the most boring ones like Ekun the bland ranger.

What people want is already in the game, you can make custom companions for your party 1 hour into the game. You can mod some money in to be able to afford them all. And you can use already existing companions only as your advisors.

I have a full custom companion run, I didn't even need to mod any money into the game. Only difference is that 4 of them lag 1000 xp after my main character (had to create them as lvl 1 so they cost only 150gp each) and the one I could afford to make as lvl 2 so he does not lag.
 
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Does not really work. Valerie story does not work if she is not longer this failed paladin that is now just a good looking fighter. If you lower her Charisma to 10, raise her wisdom and Dex and turn her into a Monk, now she is a completely different character.
That's why I wrote "within limits". I was thinking more along the lines of lore friendly changes like in Baldur's Gate EE Keeper that let you make Minsc a Berserker instead of a Ranger, or Viconia a Cleric/Shadowdancer instead of a pure Cleric and so on. Valerie could be a pure fighter, too. With Pathfinder's multi-classing options a lot of that is easier, granted, but sometimes a few more customization options would be welcome.

Custom companions can't talk, so it's not the same.
 
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Custom companions can't talk, so it's not the same.

I agree that if there are going to be companions they should be customizable. But I don't feel developer built/scripted NPCs are that special. There are better places to spend the writing budget. Heck, just making sure the occassional tagalong for a quest or two is memorable would be enough without making them a full fledged party member.

If a games writers can only tell their story by filling 90% of the party slots with "their vision", then they'd be better off writing a novel. This is the same complaint levelled at tabletop DMs that go too heavily handed with DM PCs or overly crafted campaigns that rely on their DM PC. The sad part is, Paizo does a pretty good job generally of crafting interactable and engaging stories without marrying a party to them. There's no reason this can't be done in CRPGs and still not end up with an "empty" feeling party.

When I finally pick up this game, I will play both ways... with the NPCs and without... so really this doesn't matter in the long run for this game.
 
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That's why I wrote "within limits". I was thinking more along the lines of lore friendly changes like in Baldur's Gate EE Keeper that let you make Minsc a Berserker instead of a Ranger, or Viconia a Cleric/Shadowdancer instead of a pure Cleric and so on. Valerie could be a pure fighter, too. With Pathfinder's multi-classing options a lot of that is easier, granted, but sometimes a few more customization options would be welcome.
PoE2 does that, ok it's limited, I remind two choices, it's better than none.
 
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Here is the humorous comparison I alluded to earlier. I have the equivalent tier collectors editions for Original Sin 2, Pillars 2 and finally Kingmaker. Note: I'm actually reasonably happy with the pathfinder collectors edition given it was such a limited run (about 1000 in existence).

First up, Original Sin 2 statue vs Kingmaker miniature - note the Kingmaker miniature is the little grey blotch in the corner!!! The value of the Original Sin 2 collectors edition was amazing, on release they were selling for 3x the cost on ebay.

KingmakerVSOriginalSin2.JPG

Next is Pillars 2 Deadfire statue vs Kingmaker. This isn't actually a fair comparison as the Deadfire statue was an additional pledge (Elite Collectors Edition tier). For it to be a fair comparison I would of had to have paid for the 120mm Jabberwock Kingmaker statue which I debated hard but at that stage I wasn't willing to risk the extra money.

KingmakerVSPillars2.JPG

The cloth map in the Pathfinder Kingmaker collectors edition box is freaking amazing and so is the artbook. Lack of a manual and poor DVD case are the only downers. Happy to post pictures if people are interested.
 
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It's not always bigger the better ;) I think some people may have been happy that Kingmaker statue is small, since there is less chance of evoking their partner's wrath (I certainly had an interesting discussion with my husband when he received his collector's edition of Halo games which came with rather large sized statue and some helmet shaped CD holder… we compromised and he kept one and gave up on the other).

Note: I'm actually reasonably happy with the pathfinder collectors edition given it was such a limited run (about 1000 in existence).

Not sure if you are being sincere or not but ok ;)

The cloth map in the Pathfinder Kingmaker collectors edition box is freaking amazing and so is the artbook.

I'd like to see it - I think I have same one except the e-version. I liked it so much I actually ended up ordering the physical book and map. Received it on Christmas eve :)
 
Not sure if you are being sincere or not but ok ;)

I am. The less of something the better from a collectable point of view, especially if the game turns out to be a hit.

Kingmaker box next to the BG2 Collectors edition for scale. It's fairly large as far as collectors editions go.
kingmakerboxVSBG2box.JPG

Kingmaker map next to the BG2 cloth map. Kingmaker map is probably one of the best cloth maps in my collection. Everything about it is amazing. Great quality material. High quality print. Massive size (at least 4 times the size of the BG2 map - and yes, big is always better when it comes to cloth maps!)
kingmakermapVSBG2map.JPG

The rest of the contents. Generic fantasy poster is good. Artbook very good and meaty as I said - it's the reason the box is so large. DVD case is a big letdown, note the insert is not even straight.
kingmaker box contents.JPG
 
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Wow, those look great (now I wish I ordered one too… damn).

Edit1: Hmm strangely your third photo is upside down when I click on it to view…

I received a different book and a map: e-version of The Inner Sea World Guide which I really liked and ordered it online. I'm guessing you also received the e-version?

Edit2: Actually, I do have the same art book as well but again in e-version

DFF0Twz.jpg
 
According to beta 1.2 patch note the kingdom management loading time has been reduced significantly. I'm disappointed that they made the over powered mobs in the chapter 6 and 7 less powerful instead of cutting the number of encounters down. Those mobs are meant to be very powerful - so nerfing them instead seems to be poor choice.

Owlcat said patch 1.2 should be released in about week's time.

Patch note (full of spoilers):

Here are some updates for the 1.2 beta. This time we have been able to significantly decrease loading times - so be sure to tell us whether you've notieced a change over here:

Please note that a few of these notes are in rough shape - they'll go through another phase of editing before the release of Patch 1.2.



System: Loading times have been significantly reduced.

New setting: you can now choose to significantly increase loading times in kingdom management screens at the cost of higher RAM and VRAM consumption.

New feature: you can now enable camera following. Just double-click a character's portrait or hit F to enable it, and disable it by manually controlling the camera (WASD, arrow keys or pressing on the mouse wheel). Camera-following is also automatically disabled on battle start.
New feature: to save yourself a loading screen, you can now hover your mouse cursor over the table in the throne room, and you'll see an exclamation mark if anything new has happened in kingdom management while you were gone.


If one of multiple NPCs taking part in a dialogue didn't have a portrait, an incorrect portrait could be displayed. Resolution: fixed.
The 5th rank-up event for the Community stat could get stuck. Resolution: fixed.
Clicking on the weapon slots located under the character's model in the inventory could increase the weight of items currently carried by that character. Resolution: fixed.
After upgrading the capital to stone buildings, some of the rooms in houses surrounding the main square could become inaccessible. Resolution: fixed.
On lower difficulties, an encounter with Soul eaters in Vordakai's Tomb could get stuck if the player character died. Resolution: fixed.
The Rage ability of Korgath's Shackled Fury had neither a name nor a description. Resolution: fixed.
From now on, you can always access an animal companion's info - just open its master's inventory or character sheet and look to the right. Useful when you cannot select your pet due to mind-affecting spells, for example.
Decreased the difficulty of fighting the Wild Hunt: thier special abilities have been nerfed on Normal and lower difficulty levels.
Improved lighting in one of the houses at the "Outskirts Village" area.
Improved daytime lighting at the "Attacked Trader" area.
Improved nighttime lighting in the unupgraded capital (the torches were too bright).
Items brought by kingdom artisans could come in an unidentified state. Resolution: instructed the artisans to speak slowly and use short words when explaining to the ruler what their creations do.
Kanerah could suddenly vanish during rank-up events when acting as a Treasurer. Resolution: gave her pills that help with STT (spontaneous tiefling teleportation).
The Soot-Blackened Brand, an item that is of interest to the Storyteller, was too hard to find: it was hidden in a locked gnome chest that would only appear at the "Ford across the Skunk River" area while the "Troll Trouble" quest was active. From now on, you can simply pick it up from a container in the same area.
It was impossible to finish the throne room event "A Mysterious Letter has Arrived at the Castle" (a letter from Linxia that comes during the "Deal With the Devil" quest). Resolution: fixed.
Three magical tree stumps could suddenly start moving with the wind at the "Abandoned Hut" area. Resolution: nailed the stumps to the ground.
At the "Other World" area, summoned creatures could trigger the teleport seuqence when they entered the blue mist, trapping some players in that area. Resolution: fixed.
Animal pelts could disappear when transferred into a chest. Resolution: fixed.
In rare cases, if the "Pitaxian crowd" event was started in early versions of the game, some of the previously implemented fixes didn't work. Resolution: fixed.
If a dialog started while the local map window was open, the dialog window would overlap with the party interface. Resolution: fixed.
A few items that the Storyteller asked you to collect were missing from the game. Resolution: you can now find the Charred Screwdriver with the Technic League's Brand at the "Dappled Quagmire" area, and the Tree Crest Inkwell at the "Carnival Glade" area in the portal to the First World.
Tanglefoot bombs' entanglement effect could last too long. From now on, they can only entangle targets for up to 1 minute.
You can now only enter Tuskgutter's Lair if you have Amiri in the group.
A weapon slot in Amiri's interface could remain locked after finishing her companion quests. Resolution: fixed.
Even after Jaethal would come to life, she could regain some of her Undead feats with time. Resolution: fixed.
In some cases during Ekun's "Bury the Past" quest, some of the enemy giants would not join the fight on their own, which made it impossible to talk to Ekun afterwards. Resolution: fixed. Those players who have already been affected by this bug (they see Ekun standing on his knees and cannot talk to him) need to kill the giants located one screen to the right.
In rare cases, Dragn could start coming to the throne room endlessly instead of giving the masterpiece. Resolution: fixed.
In some cases, players could get stuck in the capital tavern during romance with Octavia. Resolution: fixed.
The event connected to Jubilost's article could happen even after Jhod is not available anymore to present it. Resolution - dixed, the event will not trigger in this case.
In some cases, the game incorrectly interpreted the player's decisions taken after fighting
Hargulka and Tartuk at the "Troll Lair" area. Resolution: fixed.
At the "Old Sycamore" area, the sleeping bandits' characteristics did not properly reflect the fact that they're sleeping. Resolution: fixed.
It was possible to accidentally fail Valerie's romance before it even begins. Resolution: fixed.
Several events were incorrectly marked as opportunities. Resolution: fixed.
Executing Edrist Hanvaki could block further playthrough if Auto Kingdom Management was turned on (this would stop game time from moving forward). Resolution: fixed.
Mim Wobblegander no longer gets stuck on her way to Talon Peak. Resolution: fixed. For players with saved games where she is already stuck, she will be waiting for them on the top of the mountain now.
Tirval kept coming if the player decided not to help her. Resolution: fixed.
The time limit to solve the main quest in the last chapter was a bit too strict. Resolution: the time limit was increased
Powerful area effect abilities and spells cast by the enemy had their DCs lowered on lower difficulties.
The big ramp in the middle of the "Troll Lair" area now takes the player to the second floor instead of outside.
Kingdom alignment wouldn't change to reflect the player's current alignment during the "Renown Across Golarion" event. Resolution: fixed. From now on, the alignment will change as it should and the capital will reflect those changes.
In Chapter 7, Maegar Varn could die before his final dialog. Resolution: fixed.
Some players could permanently lose access to Nok-Nok if they have seen a certain statue before they were supposed to. Resolution: fixed.
In the north-west of the "Silverstep Lake Village" area, you can summon a wyvern. The way to summon it has been made more logical and consistent.
From now on, the "Saving Grace" quest will start no matter what the status of the "Hour of Rage" quest is.
During Nok-Nok's companion quest, the player could gain "Hero" and "Jester" points by maing certain decisions and picking certain dialogue options. Gathering a high enough number of these points was the only way to open the relevant story paths for Nok-Nok during the quest arc's finale (and thus save him at the House of the Edge of Time later on). However, it was unclear how to gain said points, which lead to most players getting stuck with the quest arc's "bad ending" and Nok-Nok dying, even if they completed his quests in an otherwise appropriate manner. Resolution: we are streamlining this mechanic. The players will now always be able to select either the "Hero" or the "Jester" path for Nok-Nok during the quest arc's finale. Which path is open to them depends on what type of points they acquired more of.
Some of the Ancient Curse events happened too late. Resolution: these events were moved to an earlier date (warnings still show up 2 weeks in advance).
In the Ancient Curse quests, counters showing time remaining until the end of the Curse didn't show . Resolution: fixed.
If Stefano Mosconi is alive during the "War of the River Kings" quest, he will now correctly appear in the Throne Room to "invite" the player to Pitax.
Two region upgrades didn't count into the region upgrade counter. Resolution: Fixed.
In the class progression screen (seen on the Character sheet and during level-up), feats that allow selecting from different options (i.e., Weapon Focus, Spell Specialization and others) will now show the selected option.
During the Season of Bloom, the peasants that form the angry mob in front of your castle could make mistakes about the fate of a certain Lamashtu's priestess (located at the "Secluded Lodge" area) and some bandits ("Bridge over the Gudrin River"). Resolution: fixed.
In some cases, opening the Inventory or Character Sheet windows could open them for the wrong character. Resolution: fixed.
The custom formation desription was changed from "NULL" to something more suitable. Unfortunately, that only affects newly created characters.
Buffs and debuffs applied by Tsanna during Chapter 7 should now display properly.
Buffs and debuffs applied by the Lantern King should now display properly.
Improved the appearance of the "Ancient Tomb" area.
Defender of the True World ability Beguiling Immunity did not work. Resolution: fixed.
 
So in Codex 2018 GotY poll as expected Pathfinder: Kingmaker won.
 
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Update: I asked Myrthos to update the rating of Kingmaker to "Very good" after completing the game again with patch 1.2.

Review Update: February 7, 2019
With the release of the patch 1.2, Kingmaker's rating has been updated to "Very Good" as issues mentioned in the review have been addressed - most of the bugs are ironed out, the loading time has been reduced significantly, the end game encounters are more balanced with extra XP rewards, and many other QoL improvements has been added including more kingdom management feedback.

There's still a room for more improvement ofcourse but I felt the major issues that brought down the score initially has been addressed :)
 
Another hot-fix patch was released.:biggrin:

Pathfinder: Kingmaker Hotfix 1.2.3 Released

Please, be aware of plot spoilers in the description below (in the Quest, Areas and Kingdom sections)!

Quests

  • If finishing the game in Chapter 6, a player could see Kalikke and Kanerah's epilogue even if they did not finish their second companion quest. Resolution: fixed.
  • It was possible to try and make Amiri the barbarian chief even if she was dead or otherwise not present in the party, which lead to the dialogue abruptly ending and "The Twice-Born Warlord" quest becoming stuck and unfinishable. Resolution: fixed.

Areas

  • During your first dialogue with Kaessi, the camera could move to a strange position. Resolution: fixed.
  • The game could crash if the player moved between areas while polymorphed. Resolution: fixed.

Items

  • Equipping items on dead party members did not show the equipped item as removed from the stash. Resolution: fixed.

UI

  • When entering the inventory screen from the global map, lighting could stop working properly. Resolution: fixed.
  • Double-clicking an inactive companion portrait in the inventory screen will no longer move the camera to some random location.

Miscellaneous

  • Visual improvements in the "Elven Camp" area: removed terrain visual artifacts.
  • The visual representation of the Aasimar halo effect could disappear on area transition. Resolution: fixed.
  • Lighting could fail to load in some areas if the OS locale was set to Turkish. Resolution: fixed.
  • Eldritch Archers will no longer leave visual FX on the ground after using Spellstrike.
 
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