Star Wars the Last Jedi, spoilerish discussion

JDR13 said:

Oh look, fanboy DArt is really showing today. It's cute.

I just gave you a very specific example of something that wasn't in the past movies, and you respond with the same line about nostalgia.

I should have known better though. Saying anything about SW is like poking a sleeping bear.

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Yes, and I gave you several examples of crap that was in it.

If there was no vacuum in TLJ - then why did Leia have to use her powers to "fly" and survive?

In both versions, they're playing EXTREMELY fast and loose with science. If you honestly can't see that, I don't know what to say - but I'm pretty sure I'm not the fanboy here in that case

I get that you've grown up and you expect the movies to have grown up with you now that you actually care about science in your Star Wars - but that's like expecting Trump to say something clever.

These are mainstream spectacle films - and you're looking in the wrong place for science and logic.

They don't need to be when some things are falling right through the hull. Let me guess though.. now you're going to explain that they're selective force fields that only block certain things?

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Depends on what scenes you're referring to. But you seem to think selective science is more consistent, so why not?

Anyway, we're arguing personal preferences and trying to intellectualize what we enjoy and what we don't enjoy when it comes to mainstream entertainment.

That's a dead end if ever there was one.

So.... I think I have to get back to The Division

NewDArt said:

If there was no vacuum in TLJ - then why did Leia have to use her powers to "fly" and survive?

Depends on what scenes you're referring to. But you seem to think selective science is more consistent, so why not?

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Spoken like a true SW fan.

I'm mostly just messing with you guys. I'm glad you enjoyed TLJ as much as you did. I'm just a little surprised that so many people here thought it was better than TFA.

It's entirely subjective of course, but the opinion here seems to go against the majority.

Ah yes, The Division. I just purchased it, but I don't currenty have enough HD space to even install it.

JDR13 said:

Spoken like a true SW fan.

I'm mostly just messing with you guys. I'm glad you enjoyed TLJ as much as you did. I'm just a little surprised that so many people here thought it was better than TFA.

It's entirely subjective of course, but the opinion here seems to to go against the majority.

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I think it's the most passionately divisive film I've seen in years. I didn't check out the fan responses before seeing it, because I didn't want to know anything about it.

I was very surprised to find so much blatant hatred towards it, frankly. I realise you don't actually hate it - but your comment about TPM being better was also quite a surprise.

I went from strongly disliking it to loving it throughout watching it, actually.

I hated the beginning with that lame "waiting for Hux" joke - and I absolutely despised the casino sequence. But once the Rey/Kylo stuff really got going - I started getting into it - and I was quite enthralled by the last hour or so.

But if it hadn't been Star Wars and it hadn't been playing on my nostalgia - I would have written it off as just another Disney piece of shit money maker. But since I actually cared about the characters, it got me.

Maybe it's a shitty money maker anyway, but I can't help myself when it comes to what I loved so much as a little kid

I think it had a lot of really neat SW stuff in it - and it wasn't predictable, very much unlike TFA.

I liked TFA quite a bit as well, though. This just had more creativity and much more character drama - which is just my kind of thing.

JDR13 said:

Ah yes, The Division. I just purchased it, but I don't currenty have enough HD space to even install it.

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Let me know how you like it once you get around to it.

Oh, remember to enable "Neutral Lighting"

NewDArt said:

I was very surprised to find so much blatant hatred towards it, frankly. I realise you don't actually hate it - but your comment about TPM being better was also quite a surprise.

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I don't know if I actually think it's worse than TPM. My immediate reaction was that it was worse, but I'll have to watch it again to see if my opinion shifts at all.

While I thought TPM was pretty terrible in general, it had scenes that stood out to me more than anything that happened in TLJ. The Qui Gon - Darth Maul sequence for example.

Jar Jar vs the Asian girl is a draw.

JDR13 said:

I don't know if I actually think it's worse than TPM. My immediate reaction was that it was worse, but I'll have to watch it again to see if my opinion shifts at all.

While I thought TPM was pretty terrible in general, it had scenes that stood out to me more than anything that happened in TLJ. The Qui Gon - Darth Maul sequence for example.

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The lightsaber battle in TPM is probably the best thing in the entire prequel trilogy - and the best battle of the saga. It's cool, but not so over-the-top that it becomes silly - like most of the action sequences of the prequels.

That said, I tend to find drama more compelling than "cool stuff" - so TLJ wins by a country mile here. Especially the way everything came together for the Luke sequence INCLUDING some cool stuff.

Jar Jar vs the Asian girl is a draw.

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I found her rather obnoxiously PC myself, but I will never get past how bottom-feeder Jar Jar was. God, I hated that character with a passion.

Idk, I didn't find the drama in TLJ all that compelling to be honest. I thought the scenes with Hamil, Driver, and Ridley were good, but the majority of the remaining cast was mediocre to downright terrible to me.

JDR13 said:

Idk, I didn't find the drama in TLJ all that compelling to be honest. I thought the scenes with Hamil, Driver, and Ridley were good, but the majority of the remaining cast was mediocre to downright terrible to me.

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Those are the scenes I'm referring to

They take up a good part of the film.

I also think some of the Leia sequences were very good. I liked her interaction with Holo-Luke and Holdo.

I don't really mind the cast. I don't blame the asian girl for getting the PC role. She could be a fantastic or terrible actress, I really wouldn't know

The role was nauseating, though.

I think Hux is either miscast - or way too exaggerated as a weakling power-hungry moron. He comes off as a parody of the typical "Empire" dude.

NewDArt said:

I think Hux is either miscast - or way too exaggerated as a weakling power-hungry moron. He comes off as a parody of the typical "Empire" dude.

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I think the style is the point.

First Snoke manipulated him, like Stacy Keach in American history X. Hux had a certain talent and is ambitious to a fault.

And not just Hux - Hux, Kylo Ren, Rey and Poe are all in over their heads. The only one to realize this and try to get out - in both the order and resistance - was Finn.

In the story arc regarding Poe, Leia, and Laura Dern, this was the point.

The arc with Rey's training, this was the point of Luke too. Like Paul Atreides before him, Luke is a messiah figure that checked out.

JDR13 said:

Spoken like a true SW fan.

I'm mostly just messing with you guys. I'm glad you enjoyed TLJ as much as you did. I'm just a little surprised that so many people here thought it was better than TFA.

It's entirely subjective of course, but the opinion here seems to go against the majority.

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@Maylander;s post was pretty spot on to me. I liked TLJ better because I was absolutely appalled with what they did with the story in TFA, which felt more like a reboot than a continuation. I could hardly believe how crappy it felt when I first watched it (it was actually more okish the second time because I knew what to expect). I had no expectations with TLJ, and that made it a more entertaining movie to me than TFA.

Silliness is a staple of the whole saga. Trying to apply science to Star Wars is a joke. It’s supposed to be inspired by Flash Gordon. It’s comic book science. Nobody expected Star Wars as a series to be this good or become a cultural phenomenon. Certainly not in the late 70’s. It’s always been about spectacle and drama!

ToddMcF2002 said:

Silliness is a staple of the whole saga. Trying to apply science to Star Wars is a joke. It’s supposed to be inspired by Flash Gordon. It’s comic book science. Nobody expected Star Wars as a series to be this good or become a cultural phenomenon. Certainly not in the late 70’s. It’s always been about spectacle and drama!

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Agreed, to me the science (or lack thereof) is not something that matters in Star Wars.

I don't see why we should assume that opinions of these current movies are distorted by nostalgia. I mean, there's several modern extensions of fondly remembered movies, and I think we can still judge them on their merits in a fair way. I loved the Alien movies, but thought the AvP and Prometheus movies were awful. I think Raiders of the Lost Ark is a good movie, and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was terrible. On the other hand, I found the latest Mad Max movie far more entertaining than the old ones.

I think it's quite possible to reach these opinions without recourse to nostalgia.

They wouldn’t be relevant at all without the original saga. TLJ would be about as loved as Wing Commander. They can’t stand on their own feet

That's probably true, but I still think we might find them wanting as movies in their own right, without being unfair to them because they don't perfectly recapture childhood joys.

NewDArt said:

storm troopers being “so precise” that they never actually hit anything and so on isn’t really that much worse, but to each his own.

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I think this is one of my favorite parts of the Disney takeover, is that Stormtroopers (and especially the imperial guards), are actually somewhat badass now.

I am just glad my aging father is still with us and I am able to bring to to see these movies.

We both had a great time, the movie was enjoyable enough. They are always entertaining and I don't read to much into them, never have.

Ripper said:

I don't see why we should assume that opinions of these current movies are distorted by nostalgia. I mean, there's several modern extensions of fondly remembered movies, and I think we can still judge them on their merits in a fair way. I loved the Alien movies, but thought the AvP and Prometheus movies were awful. I think Raiders of the Lost Ark is a good movie, and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was terrible. On the other hand, I found the latest Mad Max movie far more entertaining than the old ones.

I think it's quite possible to reach these opinions without recourse to nostalgia.

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Thank you.

I'm glad there's at least one other person here who gets that.