Questions about TDE rules

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
And it would've been much closer to the P&P kind of gameplay.

Get real. Who wants to play such a game?

If I want to play P&P I buy a P&P set.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Get real. Who wants to play such a game?

If I want to play P&P I buy a P&P set.

Without ever playing the original P&P I'm perfectly fine with the amount of combat in this game (so far). Only exception in the moors with the seemingly ever-respawning undeads (even after I removed their source), but it's minor.

The respawning should stop if you destroyed all sources.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Get real. Who wants to play such a game?

If I want to play P&P I buy a P&P set.

QFT - the closer they get to PnP the less interesting it becomes - there is a certain 'uncanny valley' for that sort of thing as well. (I look at the PSP D&D Tactics as crossing that line)

The furrier's knife is located in the sewers underneath Ferdok. You'll need a Dwarf to see the secret door, but it's during the main quest that leads you below the city.

crpgnut and Alrik Fassbaur,
Thanks for the updates I will edit the post above. Anyone who has info on similar tools for bowyer, etc. please let us know.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Although, if you are used to combat-heavy RPGs, you'll hardly notice. It's just the effect of adaption.

Does a thing such as a non combat-heavy rpg even exist?

It's all relative, I guess. Torment and the first Fallouts were less combat heavy than, for example, other infinity engine games. Some Ultimas has also relatively little combat.

You are of course right. Generally, you spend a lot of time in combat. I guess RPGs are usually tied to a genre in which people shoot at each other or chop each other's limbs of. It would be interesting to see an RPG with very little or even no combat.

Yes, that's something I'd like to se, to.

I once read that Al-Qadim mainly consisted of riddles ?

Edit: Wikipedia puts Al-Quadim into the Action-RPG sub-genre …

"little or even no combat"??? Hmmm, I'm certainly no fan of Action RPGs, but no combat… I'm not sure leveling up just for thieving and social skills would be enough to make character advancement fun for me. No, I need at least SOME combat. Limited but strategic, party based combat is the way go, imo.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Yes, that's something I'd like to se, to.

I once read that Al-Qadim mainly consisted of riddles ?

Edit: Wikipedia puts Al-Quadim into the Action-RPG sub-genre …

It has been some time, but I've played Al-Qadim a bit.
In general, it feels like Zelda (though I never really played those games for long, either), click-click-click to kill enemies, no real character progression, but some puzzles. Certainly not my cup of tea. The story seemed somewhat interesting as far as I can remember (it is about ten years or so ago when I played it).

Originally Posted by CarcusRex
No, I need at least SOME combat.

Here our definnitions of role-playing differ.

Role-playing is for me to play a role, which means it might well be without combat, too.

Playing a role and character growth is the most important element in RPGs for me.

To me, role-playing and crpgs are totally different animals. The roots of crpgs are stat-driven combat machines. The story was just kinda slapped on to give you a reason to fight the endless masses and to have a beginning and ending. You had stat development, exploration, and combat as the primary pieces of the engine. Adventure games are where they told the stories. When the adventure genre died, it somehow got rolled into our crpgs. I can live with it, but I hate games where the story takes precendence over stat-building, loot acquisition, and exploration. I know that there are many here that disagree with this.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I once read that Al-Qadim mainly consisted of riddles ?

Edit: Wikipedia puts Al-Quadim into the Action-RPG sub-genre …

It does? Last I looked at the Wikipedia entry, it classed the game as AD&D. (Advanced Dragons and Dungeons).

Not that I ever played the game, it's a bit old for me. I'm wondering if it's DOS or Win.3.1. Some of those games from that era (1992) actually did both.

Interesting that you referred to it, anyway - I find the setting interesting; - it would be nice to do an RPG in a Persian setting for a change; - most of the current ones seem to be medieval or space-themed. (Ok, ok - and nuclear post-apocolyptic.. )

Sorry for wandering a bit off-topic here, I was just planning on lurking and sponging up as much Drakensang info as possible.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
To me, role-playing and crpgs are totally different animals. The roots of crpgs are stat-driven combat machines. The story was just kinda slapped on to give you a reason to fight the endless masses and to have a beginning and ending. You had stat development, exploration, and combat as the primary pieces of the engine. Adventure games are where they told the stories. When the adventure genre died, it somehow got rolled into our crpgs. I can live with it, but I hate games where the story takes precendence over stat-building, loot acquisition, and exploration. I know that there are many here that disagree with this.

Ok, obviously I'm in a chatty mood. Crpgnut, I'm going to disagree with you, because I love a story, and I find adventure games generally too slow and boring, so I find it nice now that other genres are bringing interesting stories into the mix.

At first I was a bit taken aback, for instance, when strategy games started to come with a decently cobbled together story, all put together in a huge campaign, as, like you, I used to focus on the stats and the strategy aspects before.

…but playing your ActionRpg/CRPG/TBS/RTS in a story setting really kinda grows on you. It's grown on me anyway, and now I actually expect it.

For instance, I'm one of those Witcher fans. Sure, the game lacked quite greatly in the RPG department, but it was one of the funnest games I had played in a long time, and although you didn't sit for hours trying to figure what weapons or armour to buy next, there was still other kinds of stats and strategy involved.

I know what you mean though, some of us have a stats itch, and that itch needs scratching…

I'm probably an explorer itch person first. I love big games with lots of stuff to find. Then I like combining the stuff to make other stuff, so alchemy always hits well with me as does most types of crafting. Stats are very important to me, but I can go without a story or just a hastily scribbled one. I love Bethesda games, but the story lovers hate that game. Gothic, PST, Bloodlines etc, all drive me nuttier. I keep waiting for the book to get good and I always end up quitting before I get too far. I loved Questron, Legacy of the Ancients, Legend of Blacksilver, Might and Magic, etc. long before the story crpgs came along. I still prefer them to one that gets long-winded. I can sometimes enjoy a crpg that takes time to tell a story. The Witcher was one of these. It had enough other stuff that I could live with the story and the horrible dialogue.

A good example of how P&P rules works on CRPG is Baldur's Gate series. Everything is very close to P&P, like regeneration is very slow, unlike with Drakensang which differs from P&P much more.

I personally would like to see as slow regeneration in Drakensang as it's in TDE P&P rules. In that way, you would have to build a campfire, make a tent and rest a moment or sleep in rent room in one of the taverns. But I guess they left all that out together with day and night cycle, because of low budget.

I don't see the fun in this. I'm happy they left it out. Unnecessary micromanagement.

Originally Posted by Gorath
I don't see the fun in this. I'm happy they left it out. Unnecessary micromanagement.

Well, the fun could be that you have to manage your ressources for a string of battles instead of only one battle. For instance, when you wouldn't auto-regenerate while you are trapped in a certain castle on a certain 3rd quest in Drakensang, that would add quite some tension and an additional strategic level to the affair.

However that would require a bit different game design overall and yes, one would have to think hard how to avoid superfluous or at least nuisant micromanagement. If one would simply deactivate auto-regeneration in Drakensang (as it is) that would create much more nuisance than fun.