PC is not dead, but is it dissapearing?

Originally Posted by thegreatsimoni
In the 90s I felt like I knew about every pc game coming out. Then game companies were small. There were only 50 titles a year. Only a dozen of which were good.

Same with software installation.

In Windows 3.1 I knew each system file personally. No, really ! I knew what what files was for and what name it had. It was easy to spot what other programs installed, then.

With Windows 98 I lost the overview. I knew only about a quarter of the files "personally", and these were files I partly still knew from my old Win3.1 days.

Now, with Windows XP, I've given up. There are STILL some files I recognize, but most of them are to me … whatever.

The Lost Vikings still fitted on a single diskette. Nowadays this is simply unbelievable.

thegreatsimoni, my views and hopes too. Well said.

I think PC gaming is pretty full of life.

Example the new World of Warcraft/Mountain Dew Game Fuel campaign.

I work for the marketing company doing this campaign with these two corporations
and interest seems pretty high.

On the site linked there is a video for the tv spot for the drink, which airs in prime time, also there is an ongoing prize giveaway on that site which is pretty active in participants and winners.

Seeing things like this indicates that the market still supports the PC gaming world.

For me the fact that pc market is dominated by games like wow is proof that pc as a games platform is slowly decaying. Games like that offer nothing to me. If you remove them whats left is not enough so I moved to consoles few years back (ps2/xbox360).

I also bought tons of old unplayed pc games because they often have wider genre-range and more depth than most pc games of today.

zakhal, I agree. Take away WoW and The Sims for PC games sales and they would go down by 50-75%, this is why you will not find unit sales given on any PC games chart, because Ithink while the first game might sell 40,000 in a month and the second 18,000, the third title may have only done 6,000 and the fourth 3,800, etc.

@ImmersionGamer Many people, of course, have PC's and can go to that promotion, doesn't mean they are gamers, and also, with 6-10 million WoW subscribers you could only get those people going to the site for you to say it was successful.

Thanks for responding! I can see what you mean John, there are a lot of people who play WoW who don't play anything else.

Though a lot of games that get released these days share release with PC versions, which is a fairly recent phenomena. There are still niche games like Sims 3 coming out which are great gateway games for future gamers.

Originally Posted by UK_John
zakhal, I agree. Take away WoW and The Sims for PC games sales and they would go down by 50-75%, this is why you will not find unit sales given on any PC games chart, because Ithink while the first game might sell 40,000 in a month and the second 18,000, the third title may have only done 6,000 and the fourth 3,800, etc.

PC retail represents only a fraction of PC game sales. Valve has stated that online sales of some games are higher than retail, and that is true for others as well.

PC is only declining if you track the NPD numbers … and even then it is the only non-Nintendo system to not drop last year.

So either way it is not dying.

I agree insofar that PC gaming was much more diverse years ago.

Now it's only a few heavily-selling franchises, with no new ideas at all.

The same concepts reappear again and again …

To me, it's like … Stagnation.

Originally Posted by immersiongamer
Thanks for responding! I can see what you mean John, there are a lot of people who play WoW who don't play anything else.

Though a lot of games that get released these days share release with PC versions, which is a fairly recent phenomena. There are still niche games like Sims 3 coming out which are great gateway games for future gamers.

The problem is, the Sims has been a gateway game for growing PC gaming and the rest of the industry has done absolutely nothing about it! We have one of the dumbest industries and media in the world! The Sims sells fantastically well and runs on average PC's because their not cutting edge, WoW does fantastically well because it works on average PCs and is not cutting edge, the STALKER, because it took 6 years to come to market 'only' had Half Life 2 graphics, but this meant it ran on many more PC's and it did not have cutting edge graphics and because of this it has outsold, on PC, Crysis, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead, Mirror Cracked, Empire Total War, Fallout 3 and GTA IV!!!! To be fair, the last 3 titles are still selling, and with GTA IV already selling at under £20 ($30) in my local games store, it may eventually overtake STALKER, but my point is made, I feel.

Despite the above, we still get 'Graphics' as a category, rather than 'Story' or 'AI'. We still get pretty but dumb games scoring more than average looking great gameplay games, and no publisher would think a game with Half Life 2 or Far Cry
or STALKER graphics would be good enough, and yet, if tied into a great story with great gameplay (like Half Life and STALKER!) gamers would probably buy in droves,at least partly based on these gamesrunningon many more PC's 'Sims PC's', as it were…!

Originally Posted by txa1265
PC retail represents only a fraction of PC game sales. Valve has stated that online sales of some games are higher than retail, and that is true for others as well.

PC is only declining if you track the NPD numbers … and even then it is the only non-Nintendo system to not drop last year.

So either way it is not dying.

Valve can say anything they like about STEAM sales. STEAM have NEVER given out unit sales figures, so nobody knows what the numbers are. Many are like you, and just 'assume' or 'trust' what Valve/STEAM say, but I would rather look at hard numbers.

There's always two things I say about STEAM:

One: if they are selling so many games, why are they not giving out the figures? It is most unusual for a company with huge sales not crowing about the actual numbers. Usually unit sales aren't given because they are lower than what people assume. As long as many gamers 'believe' STEAM is selling millions of games, why would STEAM let those people know it's only 10,000's?

Two: If STEAM are selling so many units, why are their charts full of indie and casual games, why are 5 year old games like Rome Total War in their Top 10? Surely,if they were selling as many as retail their charts would be similar to NPD's? When you get announcements, like we did last week, that Bethesda's Morrowind has been added to STEAMS Roster, and a few weeks ago STEAM had a special offer on X-Com, so I wonder, out of all the unit sales STEAM does have, how many are recent games, that have an impact on current and future PC gaming? What does it help that STEAM sell a couple 100 Morrowind's or a couple 1,000 X-Com's? Good for STEAM, but if anything, these sales, to some degree, take away from sales of modern games like GTA IV, Empire Total War and Far Cry 2. In fact, if the majority of games STEAM sells are 'retro games', STEAM could be doing well outofthe fact the more gamers think modern gaming sucks - hence it's decline.

The results of an currently ongoing poll (in German language, with 1 = very much and lower numbers = decreasing in importance) :
http://www.sozioland.de/uc/main/44eb…3190&act=start

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
The results of an currently ongoing poll (in German language, with 1 = very much and lower numbers = decreasing in importance) :
http://www.sozioland.de/uc/main/44eb…3190&act=start

Well, considering when asking what machine do you play on, PC was either not listed or was listed under 'other', I would say that poll is also showing how PC gaming is not being seen as a gaming machine any more. I go to so many sites now that have become multiformat and in the forums of quite a few you get sub forums for PS3, 360 and handhelds, for PC gaming you can only post under 'General Gaming'! The PC is the only gaming machine without it's own sub forum!

One site had sub forums for boardgames, email games and collecting, along with the console sub forums and yet still no PC sub forum! So boardgames and email games,to some websites, are more important than PC gaming!!!

And then there's the Watch…so why would you go anywhere else!!

Originally Posted by Corwin
And then there's the Watch…so why would you go anywhere else!!

What?! Gobbledegook once again from the media.

Originally Posted by UK_John
Many are like you, and just 'assume' or 'trust' what Valve/STEAM say, but I would rather look at hard numbers..

… and many are like you, and run around claiming the sky is falling and PC gaming is d0med regardless of the evidence. There is always possibility to refute evidence, so you do refute that which doesn't suit your biased cause, and even ignore stuff stated that clearly conflicts what you want to say.

Originally Posted by txa1265
… and many are like you, and run around claiming the sky is falling and PC gaming is d0med regardless of the evidence. There is always possibility to refute evidence, so you do refute that which doesn't suit your biased cause, and even ignore stuff stated that clearly conflicts what you want to say.

Amazing - if you say something positive with no proof, everyone, including the media, love you. Just say 'where's the proof?' Or say the opposite, again with no proof, and you get something like the above statement…… No wonder PC gaming is struggling! At least I used logic about why STEAM numbers are not probably as high as people think, the person who just said 'they sell a load' without any proof did not give any logical reason to back it up!

No one, so far, has come up with an argument to refute my points about why I believe STEAM are not doing big numbers,and yet they go after me with no proof or logic of their own! Real fair world in PC gaming and nice to see such an unbiased approach once more from the media!

Companies make a business out of estimating the output of privately held businesses who don't report their numbers publicly all the time, using inferential methods. Even with limited info, even given that I agree with you to an extent that PC gaming is not at the heights of the late 90's / early 2000's that I would love to see again, and that doesn't look to change in a real way any time soon, there is other evidence that supports the non-death of PC gaming.

For example:
- As I stated, for the entirety of 2008 and thus far this year, PC is the only non-Nintendo system that has not lost sales / profits. And that is based on NPD data.
- It is easy to infer that digital downloads of PC games are growing considerably, from the fact that companies are talking about that growth (even without numbers), more companies are switching over to DD, and more and more things are moving in that direction. If you are right and it is a smoke show by Valve, then the entirety of the gaming / music / book / movie industry is stupid and blind.
- Large companies such as EA and Activision have made statements about moving more and more development into PC gaming. They would do that for one reason … money. If they are doing it, the financial position relative to PC gaming has changed for the better over the last few years.

By drawing inferences we learn things all the time, even without always having hard numbers.

Originally Posted by txa1265
Companies make a business out of estimating the output of privately held businesses who don't report their numbers publicly all the time, using inferential methods. Even with limited info, even given that I agree with you to an extent that PC gaming is not at the heights of the late 90's / early 2000's that I would love to see again, and that doesn't look to change in a real way any time soon, there is other evidence that supports the non-death of PC gaming.

For example:
- As I stated, for the entirety of 2008 and thus far this year, PC is the only non-Nintendo system that has not lost sales / profits. And that is based on NPD data.
- It is easy to infer that digital downloads of PC games are growing considerably, from the fact that companies are talking about that growth (even without numbers), more companies are switching over to DD, and more and more things are moving in that direction. If you are right and it is a smoke show by Valve, then the entirety of the gaming / music / book / movie industry is stupid and blind.
- Large companies such as EA and Activision have made statements about moving more and more development into PC gaming. They would do that for one reason … money. If they are doing it, the financial position relative to PC gaming has changed for the better over the last few years.

By drawing inferences we learn things all the time, even without always having hard numbers.

We'll see what EA and Activision mean when they say 'PC', because I don't think it means PC gaming surviving, I think it means the continuation of console conversions. This meaning yes, there will be some console games still coming out on PC, but that doesn't mean 'PC gaming' is surviving, it means PC gaming is 'existing' -and that's not the same. Do you think, if PC gaming was still a powerhouse, Bioware RPG's would have gone from Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment to the so-called RPG's of Jade Empire and Mass Effect? To the extent that Jade Empire and Mass Effect are 'action-RPG's' is purely about Bioware going multiformat. This is what I mean by PC gaming disappearing… The change that PC gamers are having to make to still play games. I played Mass Effect, because what else was out there? But I would rather have had another deep, sophisticated Bioware RPG like Baldur's Gate (albeit 3D,etc). Bioware were the only company that could have competed with Bethesda,but like so many publishers,it went 'console' and pushed PC gaming down to second division, or now, third division.

Originally Posted by txa1265
… and many are like you, and run around claiming the sky is falling and PC gaming is d0med regardless of the evidence. There is always possibility to refute evidence, so you do refute that which doesn't suit your biased cause, and even ignore stuff stated that clearly conflicts what you want to say.

I base my opinnion to the fact that I disliked consoles but that changed because now consoles have interesting games that are not available on PC or then the PC version is just a poor port. I have even started to play FPS with gamepad. Whether PC platform is decaying or not Im seeing myself moving on to the consoles regardless.

EDIT: Note that I have never said that "PC gaming is going to die". It might decay to certain level but not die. You have to be careful with these terms.

I wonder how big chunk onlinegames/mmos are of pc gaming industry? If you remove the income generated by them how much is left? If thats the "future of pc gaming" I dont want to be a part of it.

Originally Posted by UK_John
We'll see what EA and Activision mean when they say 'PC', because I don't think it means PC gaming surviving, I think it means the continuation of console conversions. This meaning yes, there will be some console games still coming out on PC, but that doesn't mean 'PC gaming' is surviving, it means PC gaming is 'existing' -and that's not the same. Do you think, if PC gaming was still a powerhouse, Bioware RPG's would have gone from Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment to the so-called RPG's of Jade Empire and Mass Effect? To the extent that Jade Empire and Mass Effect are 'action-RPG's' is purely about Bioware going multiformat. This is what I mean by PC gaming disappearing… The change that PC gamers are having to make to still play games. I played Mass Effect, because what else was out there? But I would rather have had another deep, sophisticated Bioware RPG like Baldur's Gate (albeit 3D,etc). Bioware were the only company that could have competed with Bethesda,but like so many publishers,it went 'console' and pushed PC gaming down to second division, or now, third division.

I feel you are mixing opinions - PC dying and cRPG's no being made that resemble the ones we want to play are not the same thing. THAT evolution has been happening for decades now.