Dragon Age - Desslock Comments

Originally Posted by Squeek
Just a guess, but might that be because Oblivion and FO3 do what their P&P games don't do well, and that's create realistic simulation?
…and the things those games did well wasn't as good as their P&P games?

That's about it. They say that computer games can never replace the pen & paper RPG experience, and if they want their RPG fix, they meet around the table. They miss the freedom of action in the more serious cRPGs, but Oblivion just gives them what they want if they are up to a few quick combat encounters.

Most paper RPGs are poor simulations, some (like GURPS) better than others (like D&D). But few cRPGS are better even than D&D. anything with hit points for instance is immediately suspect as a simulation.

As for BG1/2 unless you know the D&D 2E rules well it is easy to make mistakes and not get far in the game. BG1 is especially difficult at the start.

Planescape is just "too weird" for some.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Your old PC is even too slow for the first Drakensang with all the eye candy on.

Could be, but so far I never had problems with Drakensang.

Sure, with the new texture pack the loading times are much, much longer now, but apart from that I never had many problems.

Maybe that's because I didn't go into the maximum for everything. I prefer to play in lower resolutions, for example.

For newer games you are right then, of course.

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
As for BG1/2 unless you know the D&D 2E rules well it is easy to make mistakes and not get far in the game. BG1 is especially difficult at the start.

I agree very much. I made more than enough mistakes and always wondered why people found it kind of easy.

I assume that BG1 became mostly popular where (A)D&D was also popular.

It's the same with Drakensang in Germany.

Originally Posted by Quests.Muin
(as if i ever heard of him before ofc which i didn't)

This is what we call here in Germany a "Bildungslücke". In English that would be a "hole in the education", roughly translated.

Alrik, maybe you should learn how the Quote+ button works.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Alrik, maybe you should learn how the Quote+ button works.

That's a thought

I have my moments.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Alrik, maybe you should learn how the Quote+ button works.

Very true … noticed that a few times, and thought 'someone around as long as him should be able to manage that' …

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
Most paper RPGs are poor simulations, some (like GURPS) better than others (like D&D). But few cRPGS are better even than D&D. anything with hit points for instance is immediately suspect as a simulation.

I don't think PnP games have simulation as their foremost goal. It's more about sharing an exciting adventure with your friends.

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
As for BG1/2 unless you know the D&D 2E rules well it is easy to make mistakes and not get far in the game. BG1 is especially difficult at the start.

I came late to cRPGs, and BG1 was the first one I ever tried. I didn't know anything about AD&D(2), and even despite the excellent handbook, I gave up at the Friendly Arms Inn. I then played M&M6, which I finished twice (that took ages ). After that, I got back to BG1, and this time, it was blast. For me, M&M was much easier to access.

Originally Posted by Turjan
I came late to cRPGs, and BG1 was the first one I ever tried. I didn't know anything about AD&D(2), and even despite the excellent handbook, I gave up at the Friendly Arms Inn. I then played M&M6, which I finished twice (that took ages ). After that, I got back to BG1, and this time, it was blast. For me, M&M was much easier to access.

BG1 was also my first real experience with AD&D, other than having read a few of the Monster Manuals. I ended up just doing a bit of research on the web to help me out. Those first 2-3 levels are a bitch though….

Originally Posted by JDR13
BG1 was also my first real experience with AD&D, other than having read a few of the Monster Manuals. I ended up just doing a bit of research on the web to help me out. Those first 2-3 levels are a bitch though….

You are probably right. I guess it was mostly complete tactics fail on my side. As soon as I noticed how powerful bows in BG1 were, the game changed completely .

But in the actual paper game of D&D 2E bows are NOT that great. That was an artifact of how the game translated to the computer.

Mind you *I* thought BG1 was THE dream game of all time when it came out and I played it like 6 times all the way through in a row. But it was was still hard at the start, even if you knew what you were doing. Unless you did the save/move/save/move/… shuffle which I consider a huge flaw in (most) cRPGs.

I wish game makers would publish compelte rulebooks that really describe the mechanics. Playing a game somtimes turns into a research project…

Bows are good in BG1? In-teresting… I'll have to give it another shot, then.

I tried many classes in BG and ended up playing the series through as archer. And my default loadout for party was bows/xbows/slings for everyone.

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
But in the actual paper game of D&D 2E bows are NOT that great. That was an artifact of how the game translated to the computer.

I still don't know whether this was an error or simply because BG1 has most fights in the open or in huge rooms.

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
Mind you *I* thought BG1 was THE dream game of all time when it came out and I played it like 6 times all the way through in a row. But it was was still hard at the start, even if you knew what you were doing. Unless you did the save/move/save/move/… shuffle which I consider a huge flaw in (most) cRPGs.

I think the possibility that one of your characters died in the first encounter with a wolf on the first map after Candlekeep was about 50%. Save/move/reload… Yes, that pretty much describes the start.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta
Bows are good in BG1? In-teresting… I'll have to give it another shot, then.

"Good" is the understatement of the day. Just the handling of the arrows was somewhat annoying.

I always had all of my characters equipped with bows or slings in addition to their melee weapons, but I don't think "ranged only" would be a very effective, or fun, way to play BG.

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
I played it like 6 times all the way through in a row.

Now *that* is hardcore.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I always had all of my characters equipped with bows or slings in addition to their melee weapons, but I don't think "ranged only" would be a very effective, or fun, way to play BG.

It loses efficiency inside BG city, and definitely in Dulgar's Tower. Up to then, a bow strategy is mostly superior in the game (slings or crossbows are game neutral). The main problem to keep BG flow requires to prevent your chars from getting injured, at least not more than your limited healing capacity allows. Bows allow enough and sufficiently damaging attacks to kill most enemies before they reach you (and to keep casters from casting). Of course, having one meat shield available to keep your bow targets at distance never hurts.

Then again, you say "ranged only". That's usually not a problem in BG, as most chars have mixed talents, anyway. But I don't think there's any question that bows were very powerful in the original BG. This was considerably nerfed in BG2.

Originally Posted by Turjan
Then again, you say "ranged only". That's usually not a problem in BG, as most chars have mixed talents, anyway. But I don't think there's any question that bows were very powerful in the original BG. This was considerably nerfed in BG2.

I don't think bows were nerfed in BG2, at least I don't recall that being the case. I think it's more the fact that the enemies scaled so much higher, and had so many more resistances to types of damage.