Alpha Protocol - Review Mini Roundup

Originally Posted by WorstUsernameEver
I honestly feel like it was only Alpha Protocol the game lacking vision.
You could argue the 'vision' behind Knights of the Old Republic II was bad, but it was there. The same for Neverwinter Nights 2, ESPECIALLY the expansions.
And I'd argue, you could probably say the same about Fallout : New Vegas, at least from the information we've got until now.

But Alpha Protocol.. I don't know, from the sound of it the development cycle that you have to wonder why they didn't just cancel the project. Desperate need for cash? Mind you, I'm not talking about the quality of the game.

I'll judge that when I'll have the possibility of judging it. I'm talking about some design choices that just seem strange to me, like the focus on a cinematic experience when the graphic don't support it, the core shooter mechanics being pretty much the same as Bloodlines, etc.

I'm sure they've always had a vision, but that's not the issue. I'm talking about them being very bad at managing their projects, and it seems they ALL lack a certain kind of focus to bring them to that top level - perhaps excluding MotB.

AP is the first game that seemingly can't be saved by inspired mechanics - because it targets an audience that is not going to forgive the quirky Obsidian stuff - and even the strong Obsidian stuff (inspired writing and strong C&C) is missing or executed awfully here.

But that's me, and evidently a lot of people like the conversation system. Something I can't comprehend, no matter how hard I try.

I actually like it. I can understand why someone would feel differently, but it fits the genre and situations. And I actually feel like I'm roleplaying quite a bit. I do research with the dossiers and, being a professional spy, try to be aware of the "style" of the other participants. When it works (and it doesn't always), it feels like a victory to me.

Originally Posted by WorstUsernameEver
I remember that Nathaniel Chapman was the 'lead system' designer'

Come on. Nathan Chapman has nothing to do with Alpha Protocol. He had been the lead systems designer on Obsidian's unannounced project and has become the lead designer on the very game after former lead designer Tony Evans left Obsidian for Bioware.

Originally Posted by dowon
Come on. Nathan Chapman has nothing to do with Alpha Protocol. He had been the lead systems designer on Obsidian's unannounced project and has become the lead designer on the very game after former lead designer Tony Evans left Obsidian for Bioware.

Eh, I was just going by what I recalled, never said I'm sure.
If you say so, and it's true, all the better for Nathaniel Chapman.. or so I hope

Also, if someone thinks I'm overtly negative about the game, you should take in context that I had high expectations about this release for Obsidian.
It felt right that their third game would be finally the polished/well-designed game that would have made them finally a truly respectable company.
Instead it's looking to be a black stain on Obsidian's reputation, and that hasn't really much to do with the game's quality itself, but a lot to do with Obsidian's (a medium-to-high-tier developer when it comes to WRPGs) future. That's all.

Originally Posted by WorstUsernameEver
Eh, I was just going by what I recalled, never said I'm sure.
If you say so, and it's true, all the better for Nathaniel Chapman.. or so I hope

Whatever you say, it's true. You can find the proof by searching OEI forum.

I just uninstalled this game in frustration.

I came upon a boss fight that completely destroyed everything I had for this game, and went 100% against everything I liked about.

3 stages and at least 100 headshots needed, when every single normal encounter can be taken with 1 headshot otherwise? The other bosses have required maybe 5-10, but this was beyond horrible. No alternative way of taking him down that I could see, and it has to be the most jarring anti-spy kind of enemy I could imagine. What in the world were they thinking with this????

The worst boss fight I've ever tried, actually - and I'm literally in shock as to how bad it was. I have to hope it was bugged somehow, but I don't want to bother messing with it.

I didn't see that one coming

Originally Posted by dowon
Whatever you say, it's true. You can find the proof by searching OEI forum.

No need to be so defensive, I just remembered an incorrect information.

Did anyone check out the review or the corresponding comments over at joystiq? If one of the people who commented was truly part of the dev team for AP(as he/she claims) then he might have had some interesting insight…

by - a tired dev

I worked on this game (a fact of which I am not proud). I'm not here to defend it; I agree with all these reviews.

First, a comment for the guy at Cheesecake Factory - Most devs eat in the office most days, if they do go out they tend to grab something at the food court and head back. I know the execs take long lunches, but they often use them for informal meetings as well. Most of the programmers and designers very rarely ate outside the office during the time I was on this project.

There was a ton of work put into this game. The problem is that is was a ton of undirected work, or work on things that were just stupid. The Executive Producer for the game, Chris Parker (also an owner of the company), seemed to think he was the world's greatest designer ever, and created all these absolutely shitty systems and wouldn't listen to any of the real designers or devs about things that just didn't work. And you can't exactly argue with one of the owners of the company when he doesn't want to listen. He basically took over the game and dictated exactly how everything would work (or not work, as the case may be). The other producers realized this early on and just gave up, leaving Parker to micromanage all the designers and programmers directly.

Sega also was a factor, because they kept changing the design requirements (yes they had heavy influence there), which never gave the producers and designers time to actually decide on one set of features to make and polish. The blame is still mostly Obsidian's because the execution was absolutely terrible, and it was obvious 2 years ago that this game should have been scrapped. Instead, though, they focused on adding still more features and never fixed the ones they already had. That is a recipe for tons of bugs and no polish… as is obvious.

This game was just an absolute failure of production, and it's no wonder that so many of the developers left the company, even after the 40% staff layoffs. I am still happy about some of Obsidian's other current projects, New Vegas included, because they are going pretty well. Their big unannounced project is looking great and is already much better than AP ever was, and that may end up being the game that everyone was looking for with AP.

Sega should have canceled AP instead of Aliens…

I'm not sure what to think.

Originally Posted by MasterKromm
Did anyone check out the review or the corresponding comments over at joystiq? If one of the people who commented was truly part of the dev team for AP(as he/she claims) then he might have had some interesting insight…

by - a tired dev



I'm not sure what to think.

Yeah, I posted it before, and sadly, it sounds pretty believable. Granted, there's a (very tiny) bright side in the fact that apparently Obsidian's new projects are looking really good.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I just uninstalled this game in frustration.

I came upon a boss fight that completely destroyed everything I had for this game, and went 100% against everything I liked about.

3 stages and at least 100 headshots needed, when every single normal encounter can be taken with 1 headshot otherwise? The other bosses have required maybe 5-10, but this was beyond horrible. No alternative way of taking him down that I could see, and it has to be the most jarring anti-spy kind of enemy I could imagine. What in the world were they thinking with this????

The worst boss fight I've ever tried, actually - and I'm literally in shock as to how bad it was. I have to hope it was bugged somehow, but I don't want to bother messing with it.

I didn't see that one coming

Usually when that sort of thing happen with a sudden so brutal change of difficulty it's because there's a trick to find. Can you really imagine anybody think try throw a boss ten times more difficult? You should check some walk through.

About the dev anonymous post, the problem is it is anonymous and it smell a lot like a fired dev than a tired dev.

Originally Posted by Dasale
Usually when that sort of thing happen with a sudden so brutal change of difficulty it's because there's a trick to find. Can you really imagine anybody think try throw a boss ten times more difficult? You should check some walk through.

About the dev anonymous post, the problem is it is anonymous and it smell a lot like a fired dev than a tired dev.

You don't seem to understand the problem.

It's that it REQUIRES a trick, that takes me out of the experience.

This is a game that shouldn't require tricks during boss fights, and it shouldn't have bosses taking 100 headshots. Of course there's a trick.

That kind of thing belongs in Doom, not in a "realistic" stealth shooter.

People seems to be extremely forgiving of this game's shortcomings, sure there's only this and Deus Ex and hmm nothing else really, but it seems a bit like butt kissing to be that forgiving It also seems like a waste to play this before it has been patched at least a few times, i bet the experience could be a lot better.. I'll wait and see, just like i do with all the STALKER games (wait 1+ year before i play them to get a good first experience).

Originally Posted by bemushroomed
People seems to be extremely forgiving of this game's shortcomings, sure there's only this and Deus Ex and hmm nothing else really, but it seems a bit like butt kissing to be that forgiving It also seems like a waste to play this before it has been patched at least a few times, i bet the experience could be a lot better.. I'll wait and see, just like i do with all the STALKER games (wait 1+ year before i play them to get a good first experience).

There's a lot of sympathy for Obsidian, and I think it's justified.

You can look at a game without taking that kind of thing into consideration, but I think that good (creatively speaking) people deserve some leeway.

That said, some things can't be ignored - and though I find it a very interesting game, with lots of great stuff, that boss fight put me over the edge. I can deal with levels closing off, and crappy checkpoint systems - but that was the last straw.

Originally Posted by bemushroomed
People seems to be extremely forgiving of this game's shortcomings, sure there's only this and Deus Ex and hmm nothing else really, but it seems a bit like butt kissing to be that forgiving It also seems like a waste to play this before it has been patched at least a few times, i bet the experience could be a lot better.. I'll wait and see, just like i do with all the STALKER games (wait 1+ year before i play them to get a good first experience).

Waiting is perfectly sensible - no harm in that. On the other hand, there isn't that much to patch, in my opinion.

As for butt kissing…ah, no. Yes, there are clear shortcomings in this game. But it also has the most complex script in any action/RPG by miles. People are out there saying Mass Effect 2 has so much better shooting and is more "cinematic" (whatever that means exactly), which is fine. Why can't other people prefer the choices and script of AP over the "cinematics" of ME, without being "butt kissers"?

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Waiting is perfectly sensible - no harm in that. On the other hand, there isn't that much to patch, in my opinion.

So the reviewers are lying when they say its a buggy/glitchy game with bad AI, controlls, cover system, bad save system etc? From reading the reviews you get the impressions that it is very buggy, from reading forums posts on another forum i also get that impression.

Why can't other people prefer the choices and script of AP over the "cinematics" of ME

Now that has hardly been the critique against this game in reviews and in forum posts.

To be honest, from reading the forums, you'd get the impression that Red Dead Redemption and Mass Effect 2 are incredibly buggy too.
Not to cut some slack to Obsidian, because honestly, if they release a subpar game, that's their fault (note that I'm still speaking hypothetically since shitty post has to still bring me my copy >_>''), but I think part of it also comes down to production values.
Honestly, considering that Obsidian tried the cinematic route, I'm surprised that their budget seems to have gone mostly with branching paths, voice acting etc…
I love choices & consequences, but only if there's at least a gameplay good enough to support them.

It's not really buggy at all. The problems with the game are mostly not things that get fixed within the scope of a patch. There are some graphical glitches, you can't turn off mouse smoothing, but I haven't run across any real bugs.

ME is a more polished and cinematic game, AP has a better script, more interesting characters, much, much more reactivity and C&C. Most of the reviews don't go into much detail about those positives, if they even mention them at all. If you play the game hoping it will be like ME2, or say Spliter Cell, you'll be dissapointed - a lot. If you get enjoyment out of the things that the game does do well (and that ought to be a lot of people around here) then you should enjoy the game a lot.

Personally, I've found it to be one of the more compelling games I've played for quite some time. I can get past the flaws, and if you can do that, you will find a unique game that does things that no other game has done before. In terms of multiple paths and C&C, this is easily the best full VO RPG I've played. It also has a great script, characters, and excellent voice acting.

Having to make important decisions in real time is quite exciting. I don't think any game has done that like this one before, it's quite a different experience to have to make choices without time to think. Another thing the game allows for is partial failure. Obviously if you die, you go back to the previous checkpoint, but you can screw up to quite a significant extent, and instead of that resulting in a loading screen, you can just live with the consequences.

Originally Posted by Badesumofu
ME is a more polished and cinematic game, AP has a better script, more interesting characters, much, much more reactivity and C&C. Most of the reviews don't go into much detail about those positives, if they even mention them at all.

That's because some of those things are subjective. For instance, I didn't find the characters or script in AP to be more interesting than ME.

Well said Badesumofu, I completely agree.

In terms of multiple paths and C&C, this is easily the best full VO RPG I've played.

Really?

You must have missed Bloodlines

Hehe, nah, to each his own - definitely.

But I personally think the C&C/story/characters are being blown out of proportion. I find them endlessly cliché for the most part - like the main character, russian hot babe psycho, rockstar drug addict, incredibly hot reporter, jealous counterpart that may or may not be evil, and I could go on. The C&C relies on mostly arbitrary decisions with little or no control from the player. If you're going to limit the time in which you can respond, at least give the player something to respond to BEFORE you start the timer.

In effect, it's not C&C - it's just C.

But, I must have been playing a different games - it seems

I have to agree with the poster above, that some people SEEM to be wearing some Obsidian favored glasses - but I don't really mind. I'm a big fan of Obsidian, and this is the first game of theirs that I haven't outright been a fan of, too. They deserve some slack, and if people want to tone down their critical sense during play, that's fine with me.

You can of course claim you didn't and maybe it's me. But let's see how time might change things. I think you're being too kind, and you're a little blinded by the C&C that isn't REALLY there.