RPGWatch Feature: Arcania Review

@Eron

A little off-topic, but have you tried the Demise - Ascension - 'Soft' Release ?

Ascension is more than an expansion, it is a sequel to the original game. Unlike the usual expansion, it includes the original game. There have been many bug fixes. Some are obvious, in the MP version of Demise the game locks up after a certain number of hours of play under some conditions, the library files cannot be read in a sufficiently advanced game, 'protection' by items simply did not work etc etc Many bug fixes are not so obvious however … in SP and MP in both A-E and P-P versions many monsters that were supposed to be able to cast would not, breath attacks were not running correctly ( no matter if a monster could breath hot or cold only the 'hot' defense was applied ) and the monster attacks were not as 'intelligent' as they might have been. We have changed and tested a lot of this … so please forgive us for not having the new game 'instantly' available … we will be beginning distribution from tomorrow and hope to have a significant number of you on the final lap with us before the end of the month!

Can we stop the discussion about opinion leaders now? This is a rather well known topic and scientifically "old". HiddenX is completely right. Dartagnan can buy a book if he doesn't want to believe it.

I'll split the topic soon. So hold on to your further thoughts in the hardcore debate for 30 minutes or so.

Originally Posted by Eron
And you guys on here calling yourselves classic RPG'ers?

Me, I don't.

I like RPGs for the depth (if there is any), for the exploration and for the story - and of course because of the "fun factor".

All of course subjective reasons.

I wouldn't call myself "hardcore". I play games as long as I have fun with them.

But different people define "fun" differently.

Originally Posted by marko2te
Nice rant science boy but you are missing the point.

Since "Lena" is a female name in Germany, I suspect this could be a woman, too.

Anyway, I agree with most of what GothicLena says.

Also, why must people be stupid to enjoy lite Crpgs? Im a Scientist, and these days I enjoy your "Easy" games like Mass Effect, Fallout, Oblivion, Fable. With a high IQ I can hardly be an 'idiot' because of the games i enjoy. This is mostly because my real life is hard enough, on a daily basis Im being "Challenged". Now thats just my story, and im sure other casuals have their own stories.

I have a similar reason, why I don't like "dark & gritty" RPGs. Real life is just hard enough, I want to kind of relax when I play games, and I especially don't want RL "greyness" in "my" games.

You can flame me if you want, but Dragon age taught me that I prefer to stay with good vs. evil borders, clearly defined. I just don't want to be reminded of real life politics all of the time, for example.

The hardcore vs. softcore debate has been moved to General CRPG. Feel free to continue it over there if you wish to.

Wasn't it Hardcore vs. Casual ?

Hardcore, Softcore are terms in other realms …

I know, but the terms were used in this thread.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Can we stop the discussion about opinion leaders now? This is a rather well known topic and scientifically "old". HiddenX is completely right. Dartagnan can buy a book if he doesn't want to believe it.

I'll split the topic soon. So hold on to your further thoughts in the hardcore debate for 30 minutes or so.

Agreeing with ignorant views doesn't make them anymore right

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
Agreeing with ignorant views doesn't make them anymore right

Correct. That's why I sided with Hx.

Originally Posted by marko2te
Nice rant science boy but you are missing the point. First, the problem with Arcania is not that its casual game but a crappy game whose faults some try to pass as casual design choices, the fact that the game is casual does not redeem it from good design.

Thats Science woman but the irony is here is despite being a scientist, i imagine I see the sky way more then hardcores do.

But back on topic, now that ArcaniA is out in the USA and I've had awhile the play it, I think people must be playing some other game, or playing through the Tutorial Island comparing every little last detail to Gothic 1/2 and convincing themselves its bad before giving it a good play, or you know trying out the real game world (the second island).

I've not run into any barriers, except the ocean but even Risen wont let you go swimming out into the ocean. ArcaniA is a good game, it has issues but even Gothic 3 has issues patches and all and people still praise it now. ArcaniA is a fun lite game, and contray to the propaganda there is exploration I've found so much loot hidden out in the game world, not to mention some even had to be dug up!

The old crafting is still there, for people who cant be bothered actually trying the game, I'll tell you: Go up to a forge, or alchemists desk or boiling pot. Interact with it, then press C, and while your doing your crafting you'll see the hero on the side toiling away doing the crafting. Was that so hard? Its no big deal if the OPTION is there to craft anywhere, because the OPTION is also there to goto items to craft, dont blame anyone but yourself if your too lazy to goto an Anvil and press E then craft.

The voice acting isnt really any worse then the old gothics, yeah its not professional Mass Effect or Oblivion Quality with actual Famous actors but hey, how many games actually are? The graphics are no where near crap, and the combat is on par with Fables, again thats no low quality. Also women are finally treated like human beings in the world of Gothic, I think its great how women arent just background servants or toiling away scrubbing the floor, now you have to deal with women more often, the gender equality is great finally, more over the hero now doesnt make stupid comments or is shocked to see women warriors when he encounters these strong women with a mind of their own. This was a big problem with old Gothics how Misogynistic it was, and while I know some guys, particularly Europeans liked how women where treated in old gothics, it was wrong.

All in all, its a fun game, granted the skill tree is boring, as I prefer skill trees with icons or snazzy artistic style but its still functional. People need to grow up and stop doing only the tutorial island while willfully trying to convince themselves the game sucks by comparing it to other games. Just let go and play, immerse in the world and it is fun, if its too easy, play on Gothic mode.

I really think these people are playing a different game, its defiantly of good quality.

Originally Posted by GothicLena
Also women are finally treated like human beings in the world of Gothic, I think its great how women arent just background servants or toiling away scrubbing the floor, now you have to deal with women more often, the gender equality is great finally, more over the hero now doesnt make stupid comments or is shocked to see women warriors when he encounters these strong women with a mind of their own. This was a big problem with old Gothics how Misogynistic it was, and while I know some guys, particularly Europeans liked how women where treated in old gothics, it was wrong.

You know, gender equality movement is a great thing, and really needed, but to prevent shit like this, not to police fictional worlds. Society in Gothic is (was) modeled after medieval society, where there was unfortunately no place for Xena the Warrior Princess. Still, you can't say there were no strong women in Gothic world. Cassia (the leader of Thieves guild in Khorinis) is one example, Sagitta the Witch is another.

Originally Posted by tolknaz
You know, gender equality movement is a great thing, and really needed, but to prevent shit like this, not to police fictional worlds. Society in Gothic is (was) modeled after medieval society, where there was unfortunately no place for Xena the Warrior Princess. Still, you can't say there were no strong women in Gothic world. Cassia (the leader of Thieves guild in Khorinis) is one example, Sagitta the Witch is another.

Yes strong women in gothic did sort of exist, but it wasnt common at all, besides i dont think you can really say its realistic in a world with Dragons, Orcs and magic to name a few. Besides, from a gamer point of view, I think it adds variety to games, dealing only with men all the time, women are interesting, at least im sure most men would agree, its good for variety, ArcaniA does this right though the female models could stand to be more prettier..

Originally Posted by GothicLena
Thats Science woman but the irony is here is despite being a scientist, i imagine I see the sky way more then hardcores do.

But back on topic, now that ArcaniA is out in the USA and I've had awhile the play it, I think people must be playing some other game, or playing through the Tutorial Island comparing every little last detail to Gothic 1/2 and convincing themselves its bad before giving it a good play, or you know trying out the real game world (the second island).

I've not run into any barriers, except the ocean but even Risen wont let you go swimming out into the ocean. ArcaniA is a good game, it has issues but even Gothic 3 has issues patches and all and people still praise it now. ArcaniA is a fun lite game, and contray to the propaganda there is exploration I've found so much loot hidden out in the game world, not to mention some even had to be dug up!

The old crafting is still there, for people who cant be bothered actually trying the game, I'll tell you: Go up to a forge, or alchemists desk or boiling pot. Interact with it, then press C, and while your doing your crafting you'll see the hero on the side toiling away doing the crafting. Was that so hard? Its no big deal if the OPTION is there to craft anywhere, because the OPTION is also there to goto items to craft, dont blame anyone but yourself if your too lazy to goto an Anvil and press E then craft.

The voice acting isnt really any worse then the old gothics, yeah its not professional Mass Effect or Oblivion Quality with actual Famous actors but hey, how many games actually are? The graphics are no where near crap, and the combat is on par with Fables, again thats no low quality. Also women are finally treated like human beings in the world of Gothic, I think its great how women arent just background servants or toiling away scrubbing the floor, now you have to deal with women more often, the gender equality is great finally, more over the hero now doesnt make stupid comments or is shocked to see women warriors when he encounters these strong women with a mind of their own. This was a big problem with old Gothics how Misogynistic it was, and while I know some guys, particularly Europeans liked how women where treated in old gothics, it was wrong.

All in all, its a fun game, granted the skill tree is boring, as I prefer skill trees with icons or snazzy artistic style but its still functional. People need to grow up and stop doing only the tutorial island while willfully trying to convince themselves the game sucks by comparing it to other games. Just let go and play, immerse in the world and it is fun, if its too easy, play on Gothic mode.

I really think these people are playing a different game, its defiantly of good quality.

Last time I checked mountains in the game are unpassable so the game often feels like a corridor crawl (like Fable) unlike original Gothics where you could walk over pretty much everything.

Crafting is still there but the difference is that before you needed to specialize in certain skill, you could not be master of all trades.

Old Gothics had decent voice acting, not great but good enough to prevent suspension of disbelief. And saying that Oblivion has quality VO is really good joke since after Arcania its probably the second AAA game with most crappiest VO.

The combat is most similar to Fable but unlike that several years old game where combat was decent for its genre, in Arcania combat is just broken and without any challenge.

About woman in Gothics, the old games had a medieval atmosphere and in medieval time general opinion about woman was that they place was in homes not outside. While that is misogynistic and despite many prominent woman of that age it was how it was. But this is pretty subjective and I see how different people would react on this design choice, but its not something I would let influence the game rating.

So Arcania is a Fable like game with crappy voice acting and dialogs, broken combat, limited exploration, simplified skill system and pretty graphics. To you thats maybe enough to have fun to me it isnt.

Originally Posted by GothicLena
Thats Science woman but the irony is here is despite being a scientist, i imagine I see the sky way more then hardcores do.

I suppose going from forum to forum defending this game with ludicrous arguments is a science in itself.

But back on topic indeed. The game doesn't miraculously improve once you leave the tutorial island. The cinematic that marks the transition is probably the most dilettantish attempt at evoking emotion I've seen to date in any medium. Who were these people again? Why would I care what happened to them? I get that I'm supposed to take revenge, I just don't feel motivated at all. The relationship to Ivy in particular was so shallow and ridiculous I can't find it in me to feel the tiniest bit of compassion.
You claim to care about the image of women in games, yet it doesn't bother you that pregnancy and marriage are portrayed in such a trivial way?

The second island then continues just like the first one left off. It's implied there's a war going on, but you never notice any of it. You drudge on from one inconsequential NPC to another, performing menial tasks in MMO format, with zero motivation to keep going. I quit soon after.
The German voice acting was done by professional actors btw, it just doesn't help any if the writing is so abysmally nonsensical and shallow. It's like the actors themselves realized this so they couldn't be bothered even trying.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Correct. That's why I sided with Hx.

I knew it was about sides and not the truth with you

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I knew it was about sides and not the truth with you

The truth? You can't handle the truth.

Originally Posted by tolknaz
The truth? You can't handle the truth.

Clear as crystal

Originally Posted by tolknaz
Society in Gothic is (was) modeled after medieval society,

Uh, oh, from a historian's standpoint, Gothic would be I think almost as bad as Xena.

I really don't see anything historically accurate in the games - okay, I only played Gothic 1, and the rest … I must take what i read.

To me, Gothic's society was NOT modelled after medieval times, but rather it was modelled like some kind of "wannabe-medieval", but in fact I consoder Gothic's society (at least the one of Gothic 1) rather as some kind of "prison world society"; which is actually an extreme kind of "§society niche", b the way. We really don't know much about what kind of society systems develop with RL prisons, but I assume that Gothic 1 was rather tried to be modelled after that.

And in Gothic 3 the devs said (as far as i remember) that they just didn't do women in the game because of the clothing. As far as I understood it, it didn't look "good enough" for them, so they were just cut completely. That's how I understood it.

The whole Gothic series is to me "a men's world" thing, try to compare THAT against King's Quest VII, which is rather "a women's world" thing …

Originally Posted by marko2te
About woman in Gothics, the old games had a medieval atmosphere and in medieval time general opinion about woman was that they place was in homes not outside.

So, why hasn't anyone developed an INSIDE game ?

Now I got you.

The basic setup in Gothic is inspired by the movie Escape from New York.

Women were not equal in this world? Who cares, it's a game.

Women might care, though I personally don't