Dragon Age 2 - Demo Released

Originally Posted by MasterKromm
Which begs the question, why even have a gaming PC? As the line between PC and console gaming becomes indistinguishable(indies excluded) why not simply go console? I mean if development is almost entirely based in and around the limitations of consoles or the desires of console gamers why, as a consumer, go with the more expensive platform? What's the benefit?

1) Higher resolutions and AA/AF mean a much better looking game regardless.

2) Mouse control for FPS games and other genres it benefits.

3) Vast indie market making awesome original titles and old-school throwbacks.

4) Higher framerates.

5) Mods, tweaks and other open-platform benefits.

6) Backwards compatibility with damn near every PC game ever made.

7) There are still many exclusives, despite what people say.

8) Used to it/no desire to learn new tricks.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
For everyone saying your limited to middle graphics and DX9. Your wrong. If you have a card that uses dx10 you can use the dx11 setting to. The menu explains it.

It doesn't work. It seems to only allow you to select dx10 if you have a dx11 card. I have dx11 software and dx10 card, but can only select dx9 path for the demo.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
1) Higher resolutions and AA/AF mean a much better looking game regardless.

True, but ultimately irrelevant… To turn a film theory point, incredible cinematography does not in and of itself equate to a great film. I guess for some, a highly polished turd is better than flat low polish turd.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
2) Mouse control for FPS games and other genres it benefits.

True, but I didn't think this discussion was about FPS games… Not to mention some actually prefer playing FPS games on the console with a controller(not me).

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
3) Vast indie market making awesome original titles and old-school throwbacks.

True again, but you don't need a top of line DX11 rig for either…

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
4) Higher framerates.

Not necessarily, and the investment to get higher framerates(which above 60 is relatively pointless as the human eye doesn't really benefit from anything much beyond that) quickly becomes exponential…

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
5) Mods, tweaks and other open-platform benefits.

In some cases… I don't think that it has been confirmed whether or not DA2 will recieve a SDK/modder tools.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
6) Backwards compatibility with damn near every PC game ever made.

Again, a top of the line PC isn't required… Heck, a good number of laptops can handle many of the older games.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
7) There are still many exclusives, despite what people say.

Many? Where are these AAA PC exclusives that demand top of the line PCs?

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
8) Used to it/no desire to learn new tricks.

Fair enough, but I have gamed on PCs and consoles long enough to realize both have their strengths… If AAA pubs/devs are only interested in developing titles for the console market then I will save my money. IMO there is not point in upgrading to DX10, 11, 9000+ if PC games will see little to no benefit over say DX9. Honestly, I have yet to see a big difference. To me the whole gfx debate is moot, I don't care about shiny gfx or crazy effects… I've always enjoyed the two(PC + console) because they offered different experiences as a result of their design/tech differences.

I'll still play indie games on the PC, but the PC I currently have will be more than enough HW wise to meet that demand for some time. To be clear I'm not slamming PC, I'm really slamming AAA that give me no real reason/incentive to stay on top of or ahead of the HW tech curve. Something I used to enjoy…

IMHO the benefits to playing a console port on the PC aren't nearly enough to warrant the added cost when I could easily enjoy the game on my PS3 or 360.

Originally Posted by kalniel
It doesn't work. It seems to only allow you to select dx10 if you have a dx11 card. I have dx11 software and dx10 card, but can only select dx9 path for the demo.

Because its broke in the demo. Laidlaw said its fixed in the final product but they dont have time to fix the demo. It works for me though with no problems and its a huge change on how the characters look.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Because its broke in the demo. Laidlaw said its fixed in the final product but they dont have time to fix the demo. It works for me though with no problems and its a huge change on how the characters look.

Could you do a medium vs high comparison character screenshot for me?

Originally Posted by kalniel
Could you do a medium vs high comparison character screenshot for me?

No problem here is two pictures of female hawke.

dx9 medium.jpg

dx10 high.jpg

Originally Posted by MasterKromm
True, but ultimately irrelevant… To turn a film theory point, incredible cinematography does not in and of itself equate to a great film. I guess for some, a highly polished turd is better than flat low polish turd.

I didn't say graphics make the game, but having better graphics in a good game is so much the better, am I right?

In RPGs specifically better graphics can mean better immersion.

Not necessarily, and the investment to get higher framerates(which above 60 is relatively pointless as the human eye doesn't really benefit from anything much beyond that) quickly becomes exponential…

Console games aim for 30fps 90% of the time and there is certainly a difference between 30 and 60 you can notice. Also many times a great game can have severe framerate or other performance issues on a console but play smoothly on PC, which can be quite a boon. I know Mass Effect played like a stuttering seizure victim on Xbox.

In some cases… I don't think that it has been confirmed whether or not DA2 will recieve a SDK/modder tools.

Even without mod tools simple stuff like being able to disable depth of field or hack an old game to run in widescreen is very important to me.

Many? Where are these AAA PC exclusives that demand top of the line PCs?

Mostly in the MMO, strategy and indie categories, but there are others as well like the obvious big one coming soon The Witcher 2.

Fair enough, but I have gamed on PCs and consoles long enough to realize both have their strengths… If AAA pubs/devs are only interested in developing titles for the console market then I will save my money. IMO there is not point in upgrading to DX10, 11, 9000+ if PC games will see little to no benefit over say DX9. Honestly, I have yet to see a big difference. To me the whole gfx debate is moot, I don't care about shiny gfx or crazy effects… I've always enjoyed the two(PC + console) because they offered different experiences as a result of their design/tech differences.

I'll still play indie games on the PC, but the PC I currently have will be more than enough HW wise to meet that demand for some time. To be clear I'm not slamming PC, I'm really slamming AAA that give me no real reason/incentive to stay on top of or ahead of the HW tech curve. Something I used to enjoy…

IMHO the benefits to playing a console port on the PC aren't nearly enough to warrant the added cost when I could easily enjoy the game on my PS3 or 360.

Okay… that's fine. You asked why a person would bother gaming on a PC today when most games lead on consoles and I gave you my reasons. You don't have to agree with them or think they are important, but all of them are valid.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
Okay… that's fine. You asked why a person would bother gaming on a PC today when most games lead on consoles and I gave you my reasons. You don't have to agree with them or think they are important, but all of them are valid.

It was more of a rhetorical… Given the thread topic, I thought my opinion would make sense when seen in proper context. I didn't literally mean all games on PC suck. I was speaking more to the direction of AAA/Bioware games, IE the effect consolitis/mass market/mass appeal has had on them as a dev. They could have improved upon DA:O any number of ways(IMO DA:O had decent, but in many ways unrealized potential), instead they went in the opposite direction. If you like the new and improved Bioware more power to ya! I'm not knockin them or you. I just see little reason to invest in a PC when I can experience the streamlined/simplified entertainment just as easily on a console.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
No problem here is two pictures of female hawke.

Erm, which one is supposed to look better?

Originally Posted by MasterKromm
They could have improved upon DA:O any number of ways(IMO DA:O had decent, but in many ways unrealized potential), instead they went in the opposite direction. If you like the new and improved Bioware more power to ya! I'm not knockin them or you. I just see little reason to invest in a PC when I can experience the streamlined/simplified entertainment just as easily on a console.

I don't know what this has to do with choosing a PC over a console but… okay. I'm not super excited about Bioware trying to be more and more mainstream, I just don't think that instantly makes their games crap. In the case of Dragon Age specifically I thought the original game was pretty clunky and cliche, so while I do lament certain "consolized" changes in the sequel I do like that it feels more unique design-wise and more exciting combat-wise while still being tactical.

I also enjoy the Mass Effect series for the awesome story and atmosphere and good shooting action, even if it is not really an RPG. I like shooters too you see.

Are either of these series as good as Baldur's Gate? Not really. They're better than KotOR and Jade Empire though, if you ask me.

I tried the demo yesterday and played through as a rogue. The conversation wheel was exactly as I was afraid it would be. I play that character, that character is supposed to be me. I want to decide what I am saying. I can live with being restricted to a couple of choices but I hate having three choices and not knowing what each of them is. The restricted choices are worse with the voice over because if I have the written text, I set the emphasis. In my mind I can say that sentence in an ironic way, I can say it cruelly, without feeling. With voice over the emphasis is set. It doesn't matter how I would say it, because that decision was already made by the person who said the sentence.
I also don't like the bad, good formula. If I am on the run from somebody and I tell somebody to stop thinking about what you lost and to concentrate on surviving, I'm neither bad nor heartless. I can tell somebody about how bad I feel about everything that was lost later on, when the group is in safety.

I liked some of the new abilities of the rogue. That might be fun to play this. i didn't really get into playing a mage so far and I didn't like the choreography of the fights. Fighters running at me from every direction in waves are not my idea of rpg fights.

I didn't like the camera that much either. I would have liked to zoom in more and to zoom out more. I missed having that tactical view and, after setting my tactics, the ability to zoom in and see what is going on from a character perspective. Looked for me more like diablo.

I think it might have worried the people at Bioware that I was playing a rogue and ALWAYS used the top dialogue button …

I don't think my "role-playing" was that of a *typical* rogue …

I wish the conversation wheel was mapped to the number pad the way the radial menu in NWN was. I keep pressing "1" for the topmost reply even when the answer I want is top-left instead of top-right.

Just tried out the warrior using the 2-hander. It really reminds me of Dynasty Warriors without quite so much button pressing.

Very disappointed with the demo (tried it last night); didn't like the art; acting (flem. seemed way out of character); graphics; game mechanics. Not sure there was much to like about the demo. I enjoyed dao (though mechanics were weak) and mass effect 1 AND 2; but this seemed like trash. It wasn't so much the camera (which i did not love) but the game just seemed puked.
-
Not to mention I couldn't even look at inventory

Originally Posted by you
(flem. seemed way out of character)

I must admit that I never quite understood why she looks so much different than in Dragon Age 1 ? - Around the invasion of Lothering, I mean.

She probably didn't want to show the gray wardens her real power. Better to seem to be a slightly crazy old witch where people just say that she is old and powerful.

In the demo she appears as a dragon and changes back to human. There is not really a point in trying to appear "normal".

If I was writing the protagonist for sich a game, I wouldn't want him to be "normal" as well - but in a different way. Like an arch-jester, for example.

There are different kinds of "being not normal".

Originally Posted by Siran
The conversation wheel was exactly as I was afraid it would be. I play that character, that character is supposed to be me.

Not in this game… in this game you play Hawke. That's a fundamental change, this is more a story presented to you that you interact with.

I liked the new dialogue wheel - it was clear what the options were I could choose and there was an investigate option also. Nice And how did you not play 'the warden's story' in DA: Origins….

Originally Posted by Siran
She probably didn't want to show the gray wardens her real power. Better to seem to be a slightly crazy old witch where people just say that she is old and powerful.

In the demo she appears as a dragon and changes back to human. There is not really a point in trying to appear "normal".

I suppose, but she looks like a character from one of the Final Fantasy games. DA2's art direction jumped the shark.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
No problem here is two pictures of female hawke.

Attachment 900

Attachment 901

Thanks, much appreciated. The dx10 one looks very blurry and seems to be missing details - guess it's not working right yet as mentioned.