|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Skyrim - Skyrim Missing Twenty Things @ OXM

Default Skyrim - Skyrim Missing Twenty Things @ OXM

July 12th, 2011, 17:58
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
One of the big issues I have with certain TES games is that there's little or no reason to replay them - because you can do everything with one character. It sort of cheapens the experience of choosing factions and developing a character according to playstyle preferences.
That's a big problem with all games now. They're built around the assumption that you'll play it once for a month or two right after it comes out, and maybe briefly again when the new DLC that adds in fluffy bunny slippers comes out, and then move on to the next game. No one ever replays games, right?

Oblivion was awful about this, and actually lead you into doing as much as possible. Want to make a magic sword? You have to do the Mages Guild quests. Stole a silver fork? Sorry, the only way to get rid of it is join the Thieves Guild. Train your blade skill? Fighters Guild only.

I really hope Skyrim drops this approach and lets you play the way you want to again.
Menigal is offline

Menigal

Menigal's Avatar
Extractor of Madness

#21

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Madness
Posts: 1,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 12th, 2011, 17:59
Agreed on TES and the jack of all trades thing. The classes don't much matter anyway and only really make a difference in the early portions of the game. By the end, everyone pretty much has the same character, the uber master of everything.

The guilds are like this too. You can join and become grandmaster in all of them, even the ones that are bitter enemies to each other.

I guess for me my problem with Bethesda is the simply don't every force you to make a choice or dole out any consequences whether it be the in the story, the guilds or the character you choose. The most choice you will be making is what kind of character you want to muddle through the early stages of the game with.

They should really take a closer look at New Vegas and see how giving the player C&C (imho) makes them feel more involved with the world the are in. I don't think it has to be especially limiting either plus it adds some re-play value to go back and zig where you previously zagged.
Motoki is offline

Motoki

Keeper of the Watch

#22

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 12th, 2011, 22:11
Funny how he didn't miss birthsigns. Yeah that engenders a lot of confidence in the writer.
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!

#23

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 15,603
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 03:50
You could also say they are missing a European developer which would grant them sub forums on some sites
--
If you don't stand behind your troops, feel free to stand in front.
rune_74 is offline

rune_74

SasqWatch
Original Sin 2 Donor

#24

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,689
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 09:00
I post what i posted in beth's forums : Much of the replay value had to do about classes , i loved level a bard as a bard , finish the game as a bard and then go play a battlemage ; now with everyone starting blank i don't think i will have the motivation to try different builds.
Tragos is offline

Tragos

Tragos's Avatar
Otinanist

#25

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Athens (the original one)
Posts: 1,439
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 09:12
It was nice that there were several classes to choose out from.
Gave people the choice to try different things out.
I always played a warrior though, stuck to one char the whole game.

Now it doesn't matter all that much anymore I guess, it'll be the same for everyone with few differences here and there.
Tarash is offline

Tarash

Tarash's Avatar
The Wanderer

#26

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 09:49
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
You mean, like a hot line you ring to ask how to role play?

Most of us don't need it thanks, just give us a sandbox world like skyrim and we've got all the tools we need
'Most of us' surely prefer pretending to play a RPG when they do not play one, crafting all kinds of insane thesis to pretend they do what they do not.

Please feel free to back up your own point with listing the tools to role play in sandbox worlds like Skyrim.

This said, I've just recalled that 'many of us' blamed Oblivion scaling up system because as they play their character out of its class progression, they falled behind the world and got killed easily.
Indeed, for those 'many of us', a hot line to learn them the very basics of RP would have been welcomed.
Last edited by ChienAboyeur; July 13th, 2011 at 10:01. Reason: Remembrance of a funny anecdota
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#27

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,265
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 09:58
Jack of all trades? Shouldnt it be King of all trades? A polymath?

Games like Oblivion allows the player to grow characters that can be master in all their skills and attributes (save the racial/species specific skills)

Cant blame Bethesda much. Probably the only major still trying to deliver an environment proper to RP. As a major, they have to cater to the maximum audience, including powergamers. And powergamers want the capacity to grow terrifying characters.

But Skyrim might be a disappointment to them in that it might not possible to plus/plus your characters, acquiring all perks and pushing all attributes to max.
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#28

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,265
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 11:19
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
'Most of us' surely prefer pretending to play a RPG when they do not play one, crafting all kinds of insane thesis to pretend they do what they do not.
I lack the cranial capacity to comprehend this comment. If you're saying 'we use our imagination' then I agree

Please feel free to back up your own point with listing the tools to role play in sandbox worlds like Skyrim.
The 'tools' are precisely the things which make a sandbox world 'sandbox' - freedom, largely. Lack of constraints in the game world, or character actions, or character builds/purpose etc. I prefer my imagination to provide the constraints as and when they are needed for my role play, rather than the game, because a games constraint for one character role might not fit another character I chose to play.
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#29

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 11:22
Then why even play a game? Your mind is less constrained without it.

DArtagnan

Guest

#30

Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 11:23
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Then why even play a game? Your mind is less constrained without it.
Sometimes I don't

Sometimes I want to play a game which forces me to experience a particular story or experience. Sometimes I want to play a game which has a moderate range of constraints. And sometimes I want to play a game which is more sandbox. There are loads of games that cover the more constrained styles, I enjoy TES for providing the sandbox RPG style, and would be glad if it didn't jump into areas already well covered by other games.
kalniel is offline

kalniel

SasqWatch

#31

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,877
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 11:37
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Sometimes I don't

Sometimes I want to play a game which forces me to experience a particular story or experience. Sometimes I want to play a game which has a moderate range of constraints. And sometimes I want to play a game which is more sandbox. There are loads of games that cover the more constrained styles, I enjoy TES for providing the sandbox RPG style, and would be glad if it didn't jump into areas already well covered by other games.
I don't see how giving the player meaningful choices removes the sandbox element. Unless, of course, you get fanatical and extreme about the concept.

Then I guess having a selection of perks that are not all available to you would constitute a constrained sandbox environment?

I don't think any fan of TES wants the game to go from sandbox to something else - but I personally don't think they're doing "sandbox" in the ideal way.

That said, they're doing many things right - and I also think they're the best at doing a free and open gaming environment. But there are certain established design paradigms that they could stand to use, which wouldn't in any significant way constrain the sandbox element. At least, not as I understand the concept.

DArtagnan

Guest

#32

Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 13:49
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Then why even play a game? Your mind is less constrained without it.
This is one of the great riddles of "higher" animals (including us) :

Why do they play ?
--
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Alrik Fassbauer is offline

Alrik Fassbauer

Alrik Fassbauer's Avatar
TL;DR
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#33

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 20,704
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 15:14
Because, "All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy."
--
c-computer, r-role, p-playing, g-game, nut-extreme fan
=crpgnut or just
'nut @crpgnut
aka survivalnut
crpgnut is offline

crpgnut

crpgnut's Avatar
Survival Game Nut
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin Donor

#34

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Louis, Mo USA
Posts: 8,790
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)

Default 

July 13th, 2011, 15:45
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
The 'tools' are precisely the things which make a sandbox world 'sandbox' - freedom, largely. Lack of constraints in the game world, or character actions, or character builds/purpose etc. I prefer my imagination to provide the constraints as and when they are needed for my role play, rather than the game, because a games constraint for one character role might not fit another character I chose to play.
Freedom? Freedom is the answer to everything, it seems.
I am keeping this answer close at hand as it is the poorest answer I have ever come accross. Will use it in the future as it is really a good one.

As to imagination, it has value but it is by no way a substitute to ingame mechanics. Constraints provided by imagination are by definition imagined and are not virtual.

A valuable piece of news for developpers though as they do not have to bother about implementing ingame mechanics to support RP, gamers can still imagine them.
Now, hat down to Bethesda, in their game, they are still implemented a system of combat, a system of life and death. If they had known, they could have let that part and so many others to the imagination of players who could have put imagination constraint on their combat prowesses, their mortality and stuff…
A waste of resources.
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#35

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,265
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Skyrim - Skyrim Missing Twenty Things @ OXM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:45.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by DragonByte Security (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch