Mass Effect 2 is the RPG of the decade!

Originally Posted by Thaurin
Oh, great. Now you made me doubt myself and not like the game. I pity myself.

Sorry, you can't do that. You need to get at least skill level 3 in wallowing first.

I liked Mass Effect 2 quite a bit, myself.

No need to feel ashamed. People who like the games I like are great by definition.

ME2 was okay allthough halfway through it did start to feel repetative.

Originally Posted by Thaurin
Heheh. Gotcha.

I just spent 15 hours on a Mass Effect 2 marathon and I just have to say that all those people who said that BioWare went mainstream and action-twitchy are goddamn lunatics, because this is half dialogue, half exploration and some fighting in-between. TPS my ass, this is a new genre if anything and really well-made, too. If you want an RPG, just go back to rogue, or something.

No, really. I just can't stop playing. I have to wonder what the people who hate it want to play. Probably something like Wizardry 7?

War, war never changes.

Originally Posted by Nerevarine
Well, the "dumbing down" of the RPG elements was only part of why I didn't like Mass Effect 2 compared to Mass Effect 1. For me, the best part about Mass Effect was that they really nailed the atmosphere of a galactic sci-fi RPG, and I thought the story - despite being a bit too short for my tastes and having an ending that was a tad underwhelming - was fantastic. I thought that Mass Effect really captured the romanticism and mystery of space and sci-fi, and I liked how your character was mostly in the background investigating a former hero's fall from grace and a mystery hidden within the vastness of space. Your character was important, but it didn't feel like he/she was the "chosen savior" of the galaxy and the only one with the ability to do anything to stop the destruction of the universe. The lore and culture was also very well developed, which added another layer of depth to the atmosphere and overall immersion that I appreciated.

In Mass Effect 2, however, the entire game revolves around how "badass" you and your crew are, losing the elegance of the first game's story and atmosphere. It just came across as trying too hard to be "epic" and felt disingenuous in its story-telling. From Sheppard getting treated like a celebrity that everyone in the whole galaxy knows about, Sheppard being the galaxy's "only hope" for survival, the attempt at a "dark and gritty" atmosphere coming across as over the top and cringe-worthy… after a while, it just became a little nauseating.

All of the characters are extremely exaggerated and absurd. Miranda was genetically cloned/mutated/incubated/whatever to be the perfect sex-toy - er, I mean, the perfect female - Jack is an absolute maniac with no redeeming qualities and is not a person that anybody in their right mind would travel with… But at least Garrus is back! Oh wait… now he's a "badass" shoot-first, ask questions later action-movie stereotype with a "dark and gritty" nature and a painful past he needs to overcome… well, that transformation sure happened fast…basically, none of the characters are well-written or likable in my opinion. Combine that with: "Hey Sheppard, I know that you're the last and only hope for the survival of sentient life and all, but you're also the only person who can solve my family problems. If you don't fix my personal life for me, then I just don't think I'll be focused and loyal for the super-epic suicide mission against The Terminator" and you have a story that is simply mediocre in my view.

This is all just my opinion of course, and I can see and respect why people like Mass Effect 2. But for me, I dislike the game for reasons other than the stripped-out RPG elements (which were pretty thin to begin with) and focus on action; I can begrudgingly appreciate a "dumbed down" RPG if the story is good enough, but I just personally feel that Mass Effect 2's story was weak. Mass Effect 1 was far from perfect and had its share of shortcomings, but for me it at least got the story, characters, and atmosphere right, and that is why I found the game to be an enjoyable experience.

I agree with you on all points, but worse than the things you mentioned was the "dumbing down" of combat oriented gameplay. Use of cover was poorly implented and slowed down the fast action shooter feel of ME1. The ammo skill-trees were very bland and frankly just don't make sense. In ME1 ammo was a mod-upgrade, available with many other interesting upgrades. They ditched some great skill tree options, and lumped 'ammo powers' in as skill trees, terrible. I can't think of a single combat oriented design decision that wasn't a step backwards.

Use of cover was poorly implented and slowed down the fast action shooter feel of ME1.

In the meantime, ordering team members is no longer a pause action. So much for slowing down the fact action shooter feel.

I guess this game series is going to divide people among the RPG fan base in a similar fashion like Blizzard did it … only in a different way.

Blizzard -> tradiitional RPG vs. fast-paced hack & slay like action-RPG with lots of collecting
Bioware -> traditional RPG vs. fast-paced shooter-like action-RPG with lots of good looking graphics

In this sense, somehow.

ME2 was almost a reimagining of everything. It's as if they didn't really like the original in most ways or some new devs were in charge. I'm looking forward to another rework of the series with number 3 here. Maybe it will be the best yet. Or maybe it will feel like Halo. Who knows lol.

Im just missing platform mechanics.

I remember I was totally addicted to ME2 in my 1st playthrough as well - had about 2-3 weeks break from WoW and played through it without stopping. The problem was, I couldn't replay it. 2nd time around, there was nothing new and it just became really boring. So I agree with statement that ME2 is a "good interactive novel/movie".

Honestly I feel that way about both Mass Effect games. I have gone through ME1 about 3 times but I think I'll need years now to want to do that again. There's just not enough meat there and the RPG aspects that it has that ME2 doesn't aren't that impressive to me.

I haven't done ME2 more than once yet, but did get all of the DLC.

I feel that both games are interactive movies but with ME1 it was as if they were of mixed opinions on what it should be. The RPG elements were there but almost felt superfluous to me, and the endless loot was as goofy as it was in KOTOR. ME2 may have gone too far with the strip down of RPG stuff but I think it did the movie aspect very well.

The things I didn't like about it compared to ME 1 was the reduction in skills and powers, the removal of the inventory and weapon and armour customisation, the removal of hacking and decryption so you could hack or unlock any container with just the mini game. I didn't like that you work for Cerberus instead of the Alliance. And I hate auto health regen.

What I didn't like about it as a game was the sheer repetitiveness of both the missions and the combat. And that most of the game was made up of recruiting the companions and the companion loyalty missions. The main plot was almost completely sidelined. I guess that wouldn't have been so bad if ME 2 was a preparation for ME 3 but as I understand you have to start from scratch in ME 3, so I have to ask myself what the heck was all that actually for?

In addition only a couple of side missions were any good. Two or three of them were just dreadful, one where you're running around on a derelict spaceship as it begins to collapse. And don't forget planet scanning and driving the little ship around on the galaxy map which was just stupid.

But one thing I will say for the game is how superbly it was tailored to the audience it was aimed at. I've never seen so much praise and hype piled on a game. I remember when it first came out people couldn't praise it highly enough, and lauded it as the best game of all time and an improvement over ME 1 in every conceivable way.

Having read Nerevarine's post I have to say I agree with those points as well, but that wasn't a big issue for me.

The planet scanning was stupid indeed. But I think that ME1's side missions and locations weren't much better in most cases and there were fewer of them. The Citadel was the best one I think and it was strange to have it so downscaled in ME2.

I don't hold either game in high regard for depth or replayability, but they were good interactive movies and I think that was Bioware's plan all along. I really think ME1 is frequently overrated, especially its RPG elements. I do not believe it was a gold standard for anything. It also has more bugs than ME2 and less refined squad AI.

Originally Posted by swaaye
The planet scanning was stupid indeed. But I think that ME1's side missions and locations weren't much better in most cases and there were fewer of them. The Citadel was the best one I think and it was strange to have it so downscaled in ME2.

Basically I think that I don't hold either game in high regard for depth or replayability, but they WERE good interactive movies and I think that was Bioware's plan all along.

Certainly ME 1's side missions weren't all that great either. And I forgot about the Citadel and how they'd chopped that down to next to nothing.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I guess this game series is going to divide people among the RPG fan base in a similar fashion like Blizzard did it … only in a different way.

I concur. I don't really consider ME2 an RPG. I consider it Action-Adventure. At the time I didn't consider Diablo an RPG either though I will admit it should be included now even if its in its own corner away from the rest of the games.

ME2 is a good game but I didn't feel the RPG elements really amounted to much. It may be hypocritical that I include Deus Ex in the RPG quadrant but I felt the fact that it handled skills like aiming being a character skill not player skill better.

Originally Posted by figment
I concur. I don't really consider ME2 an RPG. I consider it Action-Adventure. At the time I didn't consider Diablo an RPG either though I will admit it should be included now even if its in its own corner away from the rest of the games.

ME2 is a good game but I didn't feel the RPG elements really amounted to much. It may be hypocritical that I include Deus Ex in the RPG quadrant but I felt the fact that it handled skills like aiming being a character skill not player skill better.

I don't and never could consider Diablo as an RPG. It's got character development (leveling) but I don't think it's an RPG. No dialogues, no choices&consequences and ultimately no role-playing (at least in my opinion). As for ME vs ME2. Well I haven't played the ME2. I did have a lot of fun playing ME, but (unlike most here) I thought story and plot were incredibly weak.

Anyway I think a lot of the problem is that too many games are nowadays labeled as RPG, when in fact they only have RPG elements or are hybrids between an RPG and TPS/FPS.

I don't see how anyone could claim Diablo isn't an RPG. It might be purely an action-RPG, but it's still an RPG.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I don't see how anyone could claim Diablo isn't an RPG. It might be purely an action-RPG, but it's still an RPG.

Trawling is a method of fishing that involves pulling a fishing net through the water behind one or more boats. The net that is used for trawling is called a trawl.

Originally Posted by JemyM
Trawling is a method of fishing

….. no..

I think D2 is an RPG-styled social gambling action game. Most of the MMORPGs are the same thing for that matter. These players are after light RPG mechanics, fantasy stuff (mostly) and chatting. They aren't necessarily looking for Baldur's Gate.