Originally Posted by Thrasher
RPGWatch, the site for "mature" gamers.

Haha some of us were playing when they were just the 'adolescent' scrolls

We are the Waldorfs & Statlers of RPGing, so to say .

or Patsy and Edinas

I voted for Morrowind with Daggerfall a very close second. If it wasn't for the 2011 Overhaul graphic and sound mod, that brings MW up to Oblivion late beta level or beyond, with occlusion, distant view, water reflections of everything, high res textures and a plethora of sound additions (it really is a thing to behold now), I might have voed for Daggerfall. With the various mods that add a sort of Radiant AI, much more in-depth conversation with many NPC's. the Morrowind Comes Alive mod which add many more NPC's and character type NPC's (like Vampire Hunters!) and mods like Morrowind Children etc, you can really make Morrowind look, sound and play on a whole new level compared with it's vanilla release!

I own Daggerfall, bought it when it first came out, have Arena too, and Battlespire and Redguard, so I know my Elder Scroll Lore! What was a shame - and so silly, was Bethesda not releasing the Daggerfall and Arena manuals.I wouldn't have helped getting the games to work in DOSBox, but having got the games working you would have had the great manuals to read, with all the history, characters, weapons and types of armour and spells, etc!

If you are thinking of coming from Morrowind/Oblivion to Daggerfall, and want the same sort of interface in Daggerfall, do the following:

Install the game. Go into the install directory and look for the last file z.cfg. open this file with notepad, and where it says "controls betaplyr.dat", change it to "controls viewplyr.dat" This will give you mouse view, and a WASD style control method. Just go into options when the game starts (Escape key) go to controls and see how the controls are set up, as you will need to remember them, this will be because you have an interface that just has your strength/magic/fatigue bars in the bottom left and compass in bottom right, and that's it! You'll be able to look around with a mouse, and to pick up an item or open a door, etc, you just have to left mouse-click on it!

Now, back to z.cfg: Add the following lines to the end of the config file:

cheatmode 1
repairmagic 1

The cheatmode 1 will enable you to escape from if/when you "fall through" the game scenery. Just use [ and ] to scroll through "quest rooms"until you get somewhere you want to carry on from. If you want to totally cheat you can find the quest room that has the quest item in it too!

The repairmagic 1 will enable you to get enchanted items repaired,just like normal items.

Hope this helps.

Uh… what? The only thing you need to do to have mouse-look and custom controls is to go into options from the game menu, choose "mouse-look" option there and remap the keys. Crazy, isn't it?

You don't sound like someone who could possibly have bought Daggerfall "when it came out". Your post reads like you have just discovered the game.

Originally Posted by villain of the story
Uh… what? The only thing you need to do to have mouse-look and custom controls is to go into options from the game menu, choose "mouse-look" option there and remap the keys. Crazy, isn't it?

You don't sound like someone who could possibly have bought Daggerfall "when it came out". Your post reads like you have just discovered the game.

Why go to the trouble of remapping all the keys to WASD, etc, when by changing betaplyr.dat to viewplyr.dat, the game will do it for you! You would have to click on Mouse to get mouse-look and options to choose VIEW mode then go into controls and change most/all the keys.

My method you change that file, then just check the new key controls and play! And you have to go into the z.cfg file to enter cheatmode 1 and magicrepair 1 anyway!

By the way, please explain what I said that makes you feel I didn;t buy this game when it come out? Because you think your system is better and mine worse? How egotistical!

Originally Posted by UK_John
By the way, please explain what I said that makes you feel I didn;t buy this game when it come out? Because you think your system is better and mine worse? How egotistical!

Really, especially since you stated in your initial post you got the game when it came out.

BTW, great post, I've been thinking about retrying Arena/Daggerfall (again) but all the other times it just doesn't work out. I will keep your post in mind if I reinstall. BTW2, I haven't checked in a while but there used to be a couple of web sites that dealt with old manuals (replacementdocs.com???). But its too early in the morn and I'm far too lazy right now to check it out . . . .

Originally Posted by Dajjer
Really, especially since you stated in your initial post you got the game when it came out.

BTW, great post, I've been thinking about retrying Arena/Daggerfall (again) but all the other times it just doesn't work out. I will keep your post in mind if I reinstall. BTW2, I haven't checked in a while but there used to be a couple of web sites that dealt with old manuals (replacementdocs.com???). But its too early in the morn and I'm far too lazy right now to check it out . . . .

Replacementdocs had to pull all their Bethesda manuals on Bethesda's say-so. So you won't find the manuals there!

I think many more of those downloading the free version would have played it longer if they had had the manual, for a start, the manual points out how playing in VIEW mode is so much better! It also points out you should only re-load when you die, as the game is designed for you to make mistakes. Without the manual, I wonder how many people who downloaded the free version just took the first quest given to them because they didn't think they could say "no" because the game would say "lost" like in a modern game,meaning they took on a quest way too hard. I see no logical reason for Bethesda holding back on the Arena and Daggerfall manuals. It seems silly to me!

The only reason I could think of for holding back the manuals are

- (perhaps unsolved) copyright problems (maybe someone wrote them who had left them afterwards ?)

- fuel buying of the full games (which would come with the manuals, then, I guess)

Originally Posted by UK_John
Why go to the trouble of remapping all the keys to WASD, etc, when by changing betaplyr.dat to viewplyr.dat, the game will do it for you! You would have to click on Mouse to get mouse-look and options to choose VIEW mode then go into controls and change most/all the keys.

My method you change that file, then just check the new key controls and play! And you have to go into the z.cfg file to enter cheatmode 1 and magicrepair 1 anyway!

By the way, please explain what I said that makes you feel I didn;t buy this game when it come out? Because you think your system is better and mine worse? How egotistical!

This doesn't even make any sense. Quickly changing settings from within the game vs. editing a game file. Less steps of action vs. more steps of action. WTF?

Besides, have you ever tried pressin F10 in the game? It switches the interface between full and minimum, eg. that "bars and compass only" isn't a magic game-file hack, it's a game feature that is in the game by default. Even the manual tells you about this.

But of course, for some of us, redding is teh hard, it seems.

Originally Posted by Roi Danton
For me it's defiantly Morrowind. It has the same elements of all the TES games (most of which I don't like very much) but it was a very interesting place to explore and visit. The art style is just fantastic.

I Agree with you, I also voted for morrowind.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Skyrim is almost certain to dominate the RPG landscape in the latter part of the this year…

It's still dominating, as near as I can tell. Steam is still charging full price for it, too.

Sorry, MW will always be king of this title!

Some should make a mw vs skyrim poll

Morrowind and I will tell you why: I have played Morrowind for close to 2 years (it includes modding) and Skyrim for about 180 hours. And, despite not playing MW for a long time, it's still more memorable for me than Skyrim.

Why I voted for Arena ? Because, honestly, nothing compared ever since with what I felt while first playing it back in 1994. The only comparable emotions where when I first played through Ultima 7 Serpent isle, a few years before.

Originally Posted by Gloo
Why I voted for Arena ? Because, honestly, nothing compared ever since with what I felt while first playing it back in 1994. The only comparable emotions where when I first played through Ultima 7 Serpent isle, a few years before.

Although later games eclipsed the gameplay in practically everyway (IMO at least) its almost impossible to beat those early experiences. Arena was one of those games for me as well. It was something like "holy crap! Is this really possible in a computer game!?!?"

Its really difficult to recapture that feeling later in life, regardless of how groundbreaking the game is.

Originally Posted by CrazyIrish
Although later games eclipsed the gameplay in practically everyway (IMO at least) its almost impossible to beat those early experiences. Arena was one of those games for me as well. It was something like "holy crap! Is this really possible in a computer game!?!?"

Its really difficult to recapture that feeling later in life, regardless of how groundbreaking the game is.

I hear you but . . .

I was an apple 2 gamer and was stunned by Wizardry. Compared to all the other games that were out at the time it was a tremendous feat and then Bards Tale came along. It was in color, it had an indoors and an outdoors and a handy temple to get resurrected. It just trumped Wizardry in every single way until Might and Magic . . . . Until Morrowwind/Gothic . . . . . Until Skyrim.

There was a point in Skyrim where I'm climbing the deep deep back woods and then when I reach the top of this mountain, this orchestral choir music kicks in just as I am surveying the landscape. It was a visual / aural experience that just about topped all my prior gaming moments.

The thing is, if I keep playing, I'm sure I'm going to get another moment that will top that. I look forward to it. But I still will treasure all my other moments. I guess I am still awed about playing computer games.

I hear you but . . .

Originally Posted by CrazyIrish
…ts really difficult to recapture that feeling later in life…

That's exactly what I feel with those games. Many games have surpassed Arena since then as you say, in the E.S. series, and there's no comparison between Arena and Skyrim but to comment on Dajjer's comment, even though I won't exchange the former gameplay for the later one and despite some glorious moments I too lived through it, it never felt the same experience at core. Don't know why some can feel like that while others are more like Dajjer but I respect this difference. I suppose it's the same as with women, some can go from one another and just pick the more fulfilling moments while some just get hooked on a particular feeling or emotion they won't ever find in someone else ? I am like that )

I think everyone remembers their first Elder Scrolls game like that. Some say Arena, a lot say Daggerfall, most say Morrowind, and usually it's the person's first ES game. For me, it was Oblivion…I remember the bright colors but most of all I remember moddable houses and clothes. I'd never seen anything like that before and I have no idea how many hours I sank into it. But there's never been anything else like that for me. ^.^