Level Scaling

Thank you for that spoiler without the spoiler box.

Seriously, start putting spoiler boxes about specific things in a game. If you want to HINT then do exactly that and HINT about it. Say it's in some tavern. That's a general enough hint for me because there are a ton of taverns. Don't tell me exactly what to do or where to go.

Originally Posted by DeepO
I found 13 gold in a chest behind a master door yesterday.

I think that higher level loot obtained at somewhat lower levels is likely part of how random loot is scaled, not really an aspect of hand placing.
Say, at char level 0-20, chance of ebony stuff being generated as a "special" loot is zero, at 21 - 25 it´s 5%, at 26 - 30 it´s 10%, etc. I reserve the right to be wrong though .

isn't it based on the dungeon level, rather than the character level?

The area levels work like FO3. Each dungeon has a specific range, like level 1-5, 10-15, 30-40, etc. If you first enter a level 20-25 dungeon when you are below level 20, then it will lock to level 20 (the enemies inside, loot, etc., should be appropriate for level 20 character). If you first enter the same dungeon when you are level 50, then it should be locked to level 25.

I'm level 37 now and I'm still finding quite a few areas with low level enemies and loot. I see a few more draugr overlords once in a while carrying ebony weapons.

Originally Posted by skavenhorde
Thank you for that spoiler without the spoiler box.

Seriously, start putting spoiler boxes about specific things in a game. If you want to HINT then do exactly that and HINT about it. Say it's in some tavern. That's a general enough hint for me because there are a ton of taverns. Don't tell me exactly what to do or where to go.

Sorry about that, edited.

I think I am dangerously close to spoiling sometimes, too, so I'll make a point to be more careful.

Originally Posted by joxer
Sorry about that, edited.

No problem. I know it's easy to do. I've almost done it a few times myself, but that particular spoiler fits my mage perfectly. I'm just going to ignore it. Easy enough to do since whenever I start walking for a certain location I'll get distracted by something shiny. It sometimes takes me days just to get to one simple quest.

I believe my total quest count is now 30+ and it keeps rising with each new place I encounter.

Sorry about the abrupt comment, but you just had to tempt me with something that would be perfect for my character

I've hardly done any of the quests so far. The ones I have done have been very boring.

More entertaining to me are the random events and encounters.

just wanted to weigh in with my thoughts on this matter. Unfortunately the more I play this game the more broken it becomes. I'm actually getting a very similar feeling to when I played Oblivion - great for the first 20-30 hours but then it begins to fall apart. I am now about level 20 and I'm regularly meeting bandits (not bandit thugs/marauders etc just standard "bandits") who can one hit kill me and have twice as many hit points as a dragon. I'm not sure if this is by design or if its actually a bug, but its just silly in my opinion and really really damages the immersion.

I know Bethesda's argument seems to be "you can't have a non-linear game without level scaling" but I just don't agree with this at all, and they handled it fine in Fallout 3.

Why not use the difficulty levels in the game to control the scaling - ie play it on casual and you should be able to get through the game without completing many sidequests, play it on master and you'll have needed to complete virtually every sidequest in order to be strong enough to get through the later stages. It just seems such a simple solution that would cater for everyone.

At the moment the scaling seems pretty identical to Oblivion, with the one difference being that sometimes you meet a few low level baddies when you're a high level and vice-versa. Yes its better but its still really dissapointing that they haven't learnt from their mistakes.

Anyhow, I've put the game away for the moment - I'll play again when the mods come out

Completed thieves guild, DB, companions, mages and main quest. Not only is the level scaling incongruent with the gameworld(bandits in elvish/glass armor while 99% of the hand placed items are iron and steel, including the equipment of lords and their bodyguards) but it also doesn't make much sense:

The average level-scaled draugr or bandit is as tough or even tougher than the dragons, even Alduin.

The game is much more interesting in its first few hours, where there is still a promise of a varied quest world and power progression, before the nasty level scaling and dull quests become a certainty.

What difficulty are you people playing? I have a level 29 mage and I pretty much own everyone on adept difficulty. O.o

I'm past level 40 and mostly I play on adept but there are still some fights I had and still have to rescale down.

There is a thread about 3 assassins opened today, that was the first fight while I was level 12 IIRC which I had to lower the difficulty. All 3 of them had better armors and weapons than I did, not only that, such equipments I haven't seen as a loot till level 20. And while lowered to novice, I still had a hard time to kill them. What helped? Lydia, conjure spell, running away and cast healing all the time on me. Now… I didn't start as a conjurer nor planned to be one, also I didn't start a cleric nor planned to be one… At least not that early in the game. Either it's a bad design or Bethesda has some level scaling problem.

Second dragon I've met in mage's guild (and there third and fourth dragon and… many of those ambush me) I also had to rescale the difficulty. Now I don't remember what level I was, I'm sure I wasn't level 20 yet, but there was no item in shops anywhere nor a loot with fire/ice resistances. Again, bad design of level scaling with cretionus endless dragon respawn scheme in Winterhold. On no other locations I've seen so many of them resurrect. Today I kill dragons on Adept difficulty with no problems since in the meantime I've found/bought many ice/fire resist enchanted items. Even elder ones are no problem.

Next a few instances with superdraugr boss I had to dumb down. I couldn't kill them on adept difficulty - because they had a support of a few lesser draugr versions - however at least one of those two sidekicks is shouting and spellcasting too! Now there is a problem here - I manage to kill them on adept difficulty with chain lightning. However Lydia dies in the process! Can't say if this is a bad design or I'm doing something wrong. Maybe I should equip Lydia with electricity resistance equipment? If only I've seen such equipment anywhere…

Finally there is a monster I simply can't kill on adept difficulty no matter what I do. As soon I see it lurking in the distance, I lower the difficulty on easy as I don't want to try endlessly on adept diff anymore. It's dwarven centurion master. That baby is harder to kill than any boss I've met so far. Dragons? Bah. I bet just one centurion master can kill a dozen of them.

Anyway, I'm playing on adept most of the time, but in some cases I really can't win the fight on that difficulty and because of dungeon repopulating, let's be real, I don't want to leave and return after a month ingame passes and then clear the dungeon all over again. I really don't want to play Diablo. Seriously.

This is why the game has difficulty levels so you can pick what you want. I play happily on Adept others prefer the hardest levels, if you prefer easy then go for it!

Daniel.

Originally Posted by joxer
because of dungeon repopulating, let's be real, I don't want to leave and return after a month ingame passes and then clear the dungeon all over again. I really don't want to play Diablo. Seriously.

I don't quite follow. There are 150+ dungeons and another 200 primary points of interest in the game. If you don't want to revisit a respawned dungeon, why would you need to?

I've logged nearly 160 hours on master difficulty and have never visited any respawned dungeons. I entered one dungeon that was a little too challenging when I was low level and when I returned at higher level it was not respawned, rather it was locked to the same level it was the first time and much easier.

There are some people who play TES games for 500 - 1000 hours (or more) for a single playthrough. These people welcome the respawning dungeons and infinite radiant story quests. I have never played Diablo, so pardon my ignorance about that reference.

Originally Posted by CountChocula
I don't quite follow. There are 150+ dungeons and another 200 primary points of interest in the game. If you don't want to revisit a respawned dungeon, why would you need to?

Because even if you clear the dungeon, another quest tells you to go at the same location again.
Points of intrest… I've stated already a few times. Because of quest bugs (and I had a few) I don't visit anything unless I got a quest for it. A real quest, not a repeatable bounty quest.

Originally Posted by CountChocula
I've logged nearly 160 hours on master difficulty and have never visited any respawned dungeons.

I don't play the game on master. Sorry. I never actually play a game on highest difficulty unless I'm replaying it.
Also, did I just explained why I've revisited some dungeons? I was a bounty hunter. Till some quests got bugged just because I've cleared an area before I've received a quest (to get something there).

Originally Posted by CountChocula
There are some people who play TES games for 500 - 1000 hours (or more) for a single playthrough. These people welcome the respawning dungeons and infinite radiant story quests.

I'm a player who will play this game for god knows how many hours in the first walkthrough. 500 hours, 1000, 2000 who cares? But do I welcome respawns? NEVER. Never ever in any game. If I kill something then I expect it to be dead. For good. Did you read what I've posted about endless dragon spawning in Winterhold? It became annoying and it almost drove me out of the game. Luckily (dunno if it's for Bethesda or for me) no other area respawns dragons that much so I just avoid Winterhold although I'm the bloody archmage now, but I'm bored with those dragons there and I want to kill something else than dragons all the time.

Originally Posted by CountChocula
I have never played Diablo, so pardon my ignorance about that reference.

Diablo is a game with repeatable quests, total of 20 different ones, with dungeons that respawn mobs. Some say it's RPG, I say it's mobrespawn clickfest.

Its a shame this level scaling.There is a point in fighting lowly bandits that gives a realistic combat model ad as mentioned hope for one great experience.But then you turn around and the same bandits are just wrecking you over and over.Has to do with your actual level so when you smith or do alchemy,lock picking etc your level rises and so do enemies but your combat abilities stay the same.

Joxer, I think it is a little bit unrealitic that you expect one man to be able to clear out an entire world. In the real world if you kill a bear in a cave and you come back next year there is a pretty good chance there will be another bear in that cave, especially if it is a good cave next to a river.

I am also not seeing the effects of level scaling as much as most people in this thread. At level 56 bandits die in a single slash from my two hander meanwhile a dragon takes about 20-30 hits.

edit: just to clarify, not all bandits take 1 hit, the boss ones can still put up a good fight.

Bjon045,I think the reason some see it fast and others see it later is due to the difficulty level you play at.The higher the lvl the faster your level goes up and so the game starts drastic changes to try to make the game feel the same difficulty wise.

I see. I am playing on "expert" so perhaps that is a better setting to get a good balanced difficulty level.