Might and Magic VI - VIII

Originally Posted by darkling
Are you seriously slagging WoX because it's tile based?

Slagging? I'm not slagging anything. I'm just saying there's a threshold where older games are harder to get into than newer ones. Playing like a screen shot compilation is one such threshold. It was great back then, but movement in games from 96 and beyond are so similar to movement in games today, they require virtually no adjustments.

Originally Posted by Dark Savant
Maylander - I see you really don`t understand what we try to tell you. Guess you really didn`t grow up with tile based RPGs so it is understandable.

I did actually. That's why I used Wolfenstein 3D and Duke Nukem 3D as examples - Wolfenstein 3D was the first FPS I played, but I still wouldn't be able to play it today. Duke Nukem 3D on the other hand still plays just fine. The graphics are crap, but the overall gameplay, movement, UI and controls are so close to modern games I can get into it just fine.

Originally Posted by Dark Savant
I still think World of Xeen is more user friendly than Mandate of Heaven. Sure, UI is not as smooth and it has strictly turn-based combat (a big plus for some of us as many don`t like real time option in later games) but there are other components I mentioned above that make this game better than M&M6. Not sure what you mean with a drama over a rat but yes world of xeen is also quite non-linear as mandate of heaven is and you can go virtually anywhere on the game map and get into some serious problems with tough opponents.

You might consider it a better game, but more user friendly? You've just stated yourself that the UI is not as smooth and it only has one combat mode instead of two. There's simply nothing to indicate that the MMs before MM6 are more user friendly. That's like saying Linux is more user friendly than Windows - considering Linux superior is one thing, calling it more user friendly is flat out false.

Originally Posted by Fnord
But it is so drawn out. I found both M&M 6 & 7 to have this issue, there were simply too many enemies everywhere, and while each single enemy might be relatively easy to beat, the amount of them makes combat feel like it takes an eternity. I never found WoX to have this problem, even if there was a lot of combat in this game as well. It did at least feel like I was getting somewhere in that game.

It sounds like you've been playing MM6-7 without a spell called Fly. Flying around solves all those issues. Also, in MM7-8 there's a spell called Invisibility. Invisibility is so powerful, once you get it you no longer have to fight anything you don't feel like fighting.

Originally Posted by Maylander

I did actually. That's why I used Wolfenstein 3D and Duke Nukem 3D as examples - Wolfenstein 3D was the first FPS I played, but I still wouldn't be able to play it today. Duke Nukem 3D on the other hand still plays just fine. The graphics are crap, but the overall gameplay, movement, UI and controls are so close to modern games I can get into it just fine.

Well, Wolfenstein is not really a RPG.

Originally Posted by Maylander
Invisibility is so powerful, once you get it you no longer have to fight anything you don't feel like fighting.

Well yes but what is then the main point of playing these games? Story is weak, there are virtually no puzzles, quests are not particularly interesting… I consider combat together with party development to be the strongest point in m&m 6-8. While in earlier games story is more interesting for me, puzzles are amazing, party development is on par with later games, more diversity with opponents, …

But guess I look through different eyes as I grew up with m&m3-5.

Originally Posted by Maylander
It sounds like you've been playing MM6-7 without a spell called Fly. Flying around solves all those issues. Also, in MM7-8 there's a spell called Invisibility. Invisibility is so powerful, once you get it you no longer have to fight anything you don't feel like fighting.

I did not get Fly in M&M 6, but I got it (and invisibility) in 7 & 8. In 8 it was not a big issue, combat did not feel very drawn out (on the other hand, they made the game far too easy). But Fly & Invisibility is not something that you get right from the get go, there is still the overly drawn out early game. And this is why I think WoX is easier to get into and more fun to play than the later M&M games.

Well combat and movement is not what made WOX great for me. It was the exploration, puzzles, diversity of enemies, and other odd gameplay elements like teleporting around to shrines, quests to remove aging, and such. If I wanted to play a FPS with nice 3d movement and graphics, I wouldn't play WOX.

I didn't find WoX easy to get into at all. It simply felt dated to me. Although I suppose my opinion would probably be different if I had played it 10 years earlier. I don't mind tile-based movement for dungeon crawlers, but I vastly prefer real-time for open world games, and I like to be able to see npcs from a distance.

I loved WoX back then, but couldn't get into M&M 6 and 7. I found them boring.

Originally Posted by Maylander
I'm just saying there's a threshold where older games are harder to get into than newer ones.

Yes, well - I don't think it's particularly useful to see this as a universal idea.
For some people, that threshold is very large, but for other gamers it may not even exist.
I've actually responded to one of your posts once before which claimed that Might and Magics 1-5 were basically "unplayable", which I again remind you, is complete nonsense. Thus, so is this assumption of a "threshold". It's just not the same for everyone.

i dont see how anyone can complain about "too much combat" in these games, its basicly what they are about; exploration and combat
i have played 3-8, and 6&7 is by far the best ones imo. movemenet and interface simply makes easier to get into. 3d world really helps "immersion" aswell, even if the graphics are sub par.
extra credit for funny character voices and remarks, something the earlier games lack. probably played through 6,7 at least 5 times each.

world of xeen is very good also, and has very "nostalgic graphics". never finished it tho..
grid based 2d graphics makes the outside world a lot less interesting (and completely flat).

Fly + Meteor Shower…map cleared. One of my favourites…WOX was hard to get back into after replaying VI and VII so many times. There are also some mods for VI and VII which I've played through as well.

Originally Posted by dyze
i dont see how anyone can complain about "too much combat" in these games, its basicly what they are about; exploration and combat

I think they really could have done with some more things to break up the combat, and also less enemies, so that it would feel like I was actually getting somewhere.