Witcher 2: Not really enjoying it so far…

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Perhaps I'll only be able to really appreciate this point after checking out how divergent the two paths via all of the various causes and consequences are; then seeing the branching in the story.

But to be honest, I don't think asking for one or two more neutral options at least in key quests is asking for that much given that the first game certainly catered for this position.

Dhruin sums it up well. After a certain point, you'll begin to understand how much work went into the two paths, and the multiple choices within those paths.

TW2 is almost like two games in one, that's how different the paths are. A "neutral" path would essentially be asking for 33% more work.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
- the skill tree? Are we honestly saying the pathetic, non-existent character differentiation in the first game is better?

Nope but this super simplified one is not exactly a shining example either. The first one was only "bad" as you describe it simply because game and talent point balancing allowed you to practically get everything by the end… That was what should have been rectified not "distill" the system to extinction…

Originally Posted by JDR13
TW2 is almost like two games in one, that's how different the paths are. A "neutral" path would essentially be asking for 33% more work.

True, But it was a rather small game so perhaps it is not a totally unreasonable request.
Anyway this is getting a bit academic at this point

Originally Posted by JonNik
True, But it was a rather small game so perhaps it is not a totally unreasonable request.

It is unreasonable .
The thing is, you sorta have the way to act "neutral" throughout the game already.
During the major branch at the end of the first chapter Geralt can be roleplayed as someone who just uses Roche or Iorveth as means to pursue Letho/Triss. Siding with one of them does not necessarily mean Geralt subscribes under their ideologies, such thing is not forced upon him, afair.
In the later chapters one can to some degree nuance Geralt´s involvement and stance towards all the politics around and I think the very last encounter in the game wrapped the "unpolitical"-dude-caught-in-politics aspect nicely.
Ok, having a third major branch would be cool if it wouldn´t compromise quality of the content, but the fact that there are only two does not mean the game doesn´t have a place for neutrality, it´s just organically woven within.


As for TW1/TW2, I sorta summed what I think a while ago in the other thread, so a repost :

Originally Posted by DeepO
At least among the people who liked the first game, I wouldn´t be surprised if there´s actually a bit more of those who consider it overall a better game than the sequel.
I really enjoyed the second game as well, but if I was forced to choose I´d go with the first one. Without going into specifics, the first game is a "classic" for me, whereas the second one, while certainly being a worthy successor of the first and whose continuation I´m looking forward to, is "just" a very good one.

Going more into specifics, part of the above may stem from the fact I didn´t mind and actually quite liked the combat in the original so its somewhat better iteration (at least on the action side) in the sequel didn´t make much of a difference to my enjoyment of both games. I honestly didn´t find much flaws in other game aspects of the original, while I was quite constantly stumbling upon flaws in the sequel - granted, most of these were fairly minor, but it adds up.
The original felt more open and more personal, while in the sequel, despite the C&C stuff, it felt more like you´re sorta taken on a ride without much time to breathe. I´ve also found the original´s atmosphere overall more engaging - the sequel has undoubtedly better graphics, but the art direction in the original is at least as good and it has much better soundtrack and music plays quite a major role in constituting atmosphere in a game for me.
The fourth chapter of the original was something really special.

Speaking of personal, I think the devs missed a major opportunity in this regard when they chose to make discovering Geralt´s past/identity completely non-interactive and independent on player´s choices. It didn´t work this way in the original and I´ve found it quite poignant/cool that the quest was never moved into completed ones in the journal. That it didn´t continue in a similar manner in the sequel and the concept wasn´t expanded upon was quite a big disappointment for me.

I love all the political intrigue in the sequel, branching in the story, visuals or the game´s down to earth ending and Roche just plain rulez, but at the end of the day, the first one was simply a more memorable experience for me overall.

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Little details not carrying over from the first game. Such as having fought Zdenek once before (and the game not recognising it) or more importantly the relationship I had Geralt forge with Shani.

That Shani bit is indeed annoying - it was a major part of the first game and wasn´t really wrapped up there, thus the total omission in the sequel renders it pretty much pointless in retrospect and as far as potential replays go.
And I don´t think it even required that much work to address it sufficiently without complicating the sequel´s storyline. Some additional dialogue with Dandelion and Zoltan and few differences in the Triss relationship might´ve been enough.

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Given that these stories are based on novels and established lore, this all kind of makes sense and is easily explained and rationalised but the lack of acknowledgement seems to distance the player from the ability to shape/customise Geralt from a role-playing perspective.

Yeah and it sorta ties to what I´ve mentioned in the repost - the past/identity thing.
In the third game they probably intend the more personal part of the storyline to revolve around the past foreshadowed in some of the second game´s vignettes and I really hope they will take an ambiguous route in this regard. The past may be set in stone in the books, but it doesn´t have to be in the game.
That they´ll allow players to deal with its consequences in different ways is likely granted, but I´d like to be able to also interpret the past events (as in, what and why really happened) in more than one way.
For me, all those snapshots of past events without any player´s input rather diminished a feeling of Geralt being a player´s character.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
- I don't understand the desire to run an "out of the box" condition at all - they improved things for a reason.

I think I've already covered my thoughts adequately on this topic. However, I will try a slightly different angle: Why do people purchase and play brand new (and thus unpatched) games? That's essentially the out of the box experience. I mean why do they do that, really? Why don't they wait for a patch? (yes, I'm being a wee bit facetious…)

Again…I don't trust the changes in the 2.0 update and have had no crashes or bugs with the game as it is…so yeah, we'll just leave it at that. If I run into a problem, it'll be my own fault ok?

Originally Posted by Dhruin
- the skill tree? Are we honestly saying the pathetic, non-existent character differentiation in the first game is better?

I'm not sure about the 'we' part, or if it's objectively better, at the moment I just like it more.
In my three Witcher playthroughs I was able to focus on different skill set specialities each time. Sure, it's basically the same character and often you end up spending talents on some superfluous skills, (especially if you're going for a sign heavy build) but I appreciated having to consider stats (str/int/dex/stam) as well as considering where to put talents at different stages in the game. I also quite like the sword stances and their skill seperation.

As another mini-update on my Witcher 2 playthrough:
I've just finished the fantastic section of the game in chapter two where you obtain the dream crystals and examine them, whilst battling through a veritable demonic horde of Harpies. This was a fun and well designed quest in concept and atmosphere. I even had an amusing epiphany when fleeing from at least 10 of these feathered screaming hell-queens, because with all the fleeing, bomb dropping, igni casting and plain ol' hacking and slashing, I'd made it all the way back to the shack of the fellow who gives you the quest for harpy feathers! There. Side-Fetch quest complete.

Finally - just have to say - wonderful post there DeepO. Posts like that is one of many reasons I like coming this place. Thanks for sharing the thoughts; the repost in particular was a true pleasure to read. Whilst I think some of what you say about the neutral perspective can be seen as a perceptive yet semantic interpretation of events, I definitely found myself nodding and agreeing with you more than not. Watch out for possibly hinty spoilery stuff though, k?

No doubt my views on these matters are still in formation and bound to change as I continue to progress through the game.

Originally Posted by DeepO
Siding with one of them does not necessarily mean Geralt subscribes under their ideologies, such thing is not forced upon him, afair.
In the later chapters one can to some degree nuance Geralt´s involvement and stance towards all the politics around and I think the very last encounter in the game wrapped the "unpolitical"-dude-caught-in-politics aspect nicely.

Also generally true for #1 though too

Anyway I naturally agree on most of the points you raised on your repost. The flashback thing didn't particularly register as a negative while playing, but I must admit you are right and it was better handled in #1.

Strangely this discussion has somehow ameliorated my feelings towards the Sequel and I am more looking forward to my Roche path replay… (Go figure )

It is in the end a very Good game, but for now Skyrim beckons…

There was a decidedly short but telling dialogue with Iorveth on Witcher neutrality where he asks Geralt, how he manages to find himself supporting him at this moment. (In chapter 2)

Geralt says something like "Things were different then, things change, allies change…"

This is the most/closest I've got so far on the subject, but hopefully the theme comes up again in some shape or form.

I'm most definitely enjoying the game more now than I was initially, but I can't help but anticipate/dread the next batch of QTE and boss encounters.

I recommend everyone read the Eurogamer article. You will find out the second game was shorter due to lack of funds, and time. A whole chapter and a new location had to be cut. This might explain why Shani didn't make in into the sequel also.

Link - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20…-of-cd-projekt

The Witcher 2 took half the time to build that its predecessor did, despite being every bit as ambitious and with an engine to build as well. An entire location called The Valley of the Flowers had to be cut, even though it had "an amazing story plot". "It's not a girly place," Adam Badowski quickly adds, "it's a land of elves." And elves in The Witcher universe are as dirty and mean as everything else. The game's third act was also cut short because the team ran out of time.

As for my preference I won't deny liking the first game better, but I still enjoyed the second one. Here's hoping the third one lives up to all the hype.

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
I'm most definitely enjoying the game more now than I was initially, but I can't help but anticipate/dread the next batch of QTE and boss encounters.

I'm glad your finally enjoying the game, but don't worry about to many more QTE's the game didn't have that many anyway. It still has regular boss fights though.

I enjoyed the second game more.
But it's not the story, I loved the story. Locations and areas, no, they did their job good. Etc etc.

I believe it has something to do with obsolete infinity engine version renamed to something else like it's not obvious what it is used in another game I couldn't bring myself to finish - NWN.

Originally Posted by joxer
I believe it has something to do with obsolete infinity engine version renamed to something else like it's not obvious what it is used in another game I couldn't bring myself to finish - NWN.

Speak for yourself Joxer as I'm still playing both NWN games with all the mods. I got more from both of those games than most other RPGs. I'm glad you at least enjoyed the Witcher 2 that something we can agree on at least.

The Witcher (both 1 and 2) doesn't need mods to be enjoyed.

Originally Posted by joxer
The Witcher (both 1 and 2) doesn't need mods to be enjoyed.

No they don't. They still have them though, and they enhance both games.

Don't forget to add that TW mods, official and unofficial, are all free.
A win-win case.

Originally Posted by joxer
Don't forget to add that TW mods, official and unofficial, are all free.
A win-win case.

All mods for both NWN games are now free also except for Neverwinter Nights 2: Mysteries of Westgate. So yes this is also a win-win case.

I hope the next Witcher game gets mod tools also. I'm drooling at the thought.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
I'm glad your finally enjoying the game, but don't worry about to many more QTE's the game didn't have that many anyway. It still has regular boss fights though.

Err, what's this then? Having a slow news day or something Couch? You're replying to a two year old post of mine.

It does serve to ironically remind me though that I must give the EE a look one of these days and see if the experience is better than my first time with the game.

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Err, what's this then? Having a slow news day or something Couch? You're replying to a two year old post of mine.

It does serve to ironically remind me though that I must give the EE a look one of these days and see if the experience is better than my first time with the game.

It is indeed a very slow news day as it's the weekend. Everyone else necros an old thread occasionally I thought why the hell not. So did you ever complete the game?

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
So did you ever complete the game?

Of course. I don't give up easily and so tend to finish the games I start.
I'll no doubt be trying the Roche path on the next playthrough.

Now can we kindly not necromantically despoil my thread any more thanks? Cheers.

First impressions after finishing the Prologue:

Pros:
Epic and high quality
Excellent game engine and incredible art assets
Fun combat
Stong story

Cons:
Cutscenes up the yahoo. I hope the game opens up
Loss of tactical pause
Fun but too actiony
QTE's
Console interface
massive loss of Gothic like atmosphere and dark soundtrack

Will keep playing of course. I can handle all of the above and enjoy this but tell me it opens up a bit? The 5 minute cutscenes are really killing me

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
First impressions after finishing the Prologue:

Pros:
Epic and high quality
Excellent game engine and incredible art assets
Fun combat
Stong story

Cons:
Cutscenes up the yahoo. I hope the game opens up
Loss of tactical pause
Fun but too actiony
QTE's
Console interface
massive loss of Gothic like atmosphere and dark soundtrack

Will keep playing of course. I can handle all of the above and enjoy this but tell me it opens up a bit? The 5 minute cutscenes are really killing me

It opens up once you get to flotsom. ( or whatever it was called) but it never really feels open imo.

Don’t bother exploring as many areas are empty until you trigger the quest for that area then they populate.

I too didn’t like all the endless cutscenes. Not only are there a ton of them but I found them very boring and some forced outcomes which irritated me. ( won’t go in to details because of spoilers) maybe all the cutscenes are to prepare you for the interactive story that is the Witcher 3. At least cutscenes in Witcher 3 are interesting imo. At least the side quests, main story was meh.

I thought the Witcher 2 was the worst in the series by far but I’ve seen post here that some think it’s the best by far so as usual it’s all about personal preference.

I would agree with the 2nd being the worst entry in the series. The cutscenes drove me nuts, especially in chapter 2 where it's a cutscene, followed by a short user control section, and then back and forth between them several times in a short period. I would have preferred one long, well-done cutscene to the jarring and pointless back and forth. Also, the FOV is poor, the camera is too close, and the action combat isn't my thing.

Fortunately, the third did a good job cleaning up the issues.

I actually loved TW2, mainly due to how well done the intrigues, politics and C&C were handled. It's still second to none in that regard.