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November 12th, 2014, 00:12
Just noticed this and to say the least…pretty amazing. Well done and very precise!
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November 12th, 2014, 12:59
Thanks, Baxander, much appreciated.

Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
A few bugs: (..)
Fixed, I think. I moved SP/MP/MassiveMP to a new group "Play Style". If the check marks in the games overview aren't green anymore, you may have to de-select the "Single-Player" tag, re-select it and save …

Aside from that, the generated BBCode should look correct now.
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November 14th, 2014, 13:29
New feature: Fun with triangles.

Here's an example from VtM: Bloodlines



These are automatically calculated from the NtH list. Should make it easier to see the relative weight in each category. I could add such a chart to the MH and SH lists, too.


As a bonus we now have a new bbcode, although its application is probably rather limited …

[ trianglechart="Name1=0.5, Name2=1, Name3=0.67" ]Example Chart[ /trianglechart ]

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November 14th, 2014, 14:53
HiddenX, I got some questions regarding combat in KB: Dark Side. As I have only played KB: The Legend and a bit of Armored Princess, I was wondering about some points:

Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Combat can be avoided due to stats (➙ e.g. enemies flee) No
In KB:AP enemies used to run away when your character was much more powerful.
You can control at least six characters. No — you command troops
Maybe the term "units" instead of "character" would be better in this case. The point is that due to the amount of different units/characters/troops the tactical depth is increased. So this should be a "yes", I would say.
Combat can start at variable distances. No
In previous KB games, there was a talent called "tactics" or so, which allowed you to position your troops on the grid before combat started. Not sure if that's enough.
Directional facing plays a role (➙ e.g. more damage from behind, flanking.) No
This would be a yes in KB:AP at least for some unit types like Assassins (a talent that only works if there's a free spot behind a character), so you had to be careful to face in the right direction. Also, counter-attacks normally could be executed only once, so flanking was important in how you positioned your troops.
Terrain is variable (➙ e.g. natural choke points, cover, combat bonuses.) No
In previous KB games, there were often trunks and rocks standing around that I could use to great effect (choke points).
Terrain can be manipulated (➙ e.g. you can create barriers.) No
In KB:L, your flame companion (?) and in KB:AP your dragon could raise walls on the battlefield for blocking purposes.
Characters don't die immediately but can be revived during combat. No
Reaper in KB:L and Paladins in KB:AP could revive lost troops, IIRC, and druids could revive animals.
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November 14th, 2014, 19:17
@Arhu - all your comments are right, if you factor the battle-map tactics into the checklist (-> I should have done that ). You can do these things only in battle.

I have not seen anyone fleeing yet, maybe because I kill everyone on each map on sight, and don't backtrack much.
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November 16th, 2014, 15:21

Icewind Dale


Classification: CRPG Subgenre
Subgenre: Linear

Design: High Fantasy, W-RPG
Theme: Good vs. Evil
Setting: Alternate World, Winter / Snow, Medieval
Combat Style: Pauseable Real-time
Reward System: Experience
Play Style: Single-player, Multi-player
Multiplayer: Online Co-Op, Co-Op Campaign, LAN/System Link
Point of View: Isometric
Camera: Interactive
Color Palette: Realistic
Control: Full Control
Voice Acting: Partially Voiced
Character Backstory: Free-form
Playtime: 40-60 hours
Funding model: Publisher





Spoiler – Complete CRPG analysis for Icewind Dale

This fact sheet was created using CRPG Analyzer 1.02 Beta.
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"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
Last edited by Arhu; December 10th, 2014 at 12:37.
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November 16th, 2014, 15:33
Well, this was the first game I really analyzed from start to finish and it wasn't so bad.

I particularly liked picking tags and think they provide quite useful information about a game. The MH/SH list was pretty good, if a little abstract at times. Maybe we can make it a bit more focused… the NtH list was pretty big, of course, but mostly easy to answer. Some points may need clarification.

And I found a few minor bugs again.
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November 16th, 2014, 15:48
I think meanwhile the Checklist is pretty easy to fill out (at least if you played the game recently).

Abstract <-> Concrete
If you get too concrete a condition doesn't fit for all games.
If you get too abstract it is harder to evaluate the condition for one game.

Would be nice if someone could test it, not named Arhu, Wulf or HiddenX
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November 16th, 2014, 16:13
Hehe, yeah.

I did let Myrthos "alpha test" the analyzer a day before the beta release and he was completely bored by the time he reached the end of step 2.
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November 17th, 2014, 17:54
Well, I didn't necessarily mean "less concrete". They need to be abstract for the reasons you mentioned. But maybe a little more structured and less wordy …

Thus I tried to slim down and streamline the MH/SH list in order to make it easier to read and scan through. I hope I managed to keep the original meaning. I re-ordered some individual elements (interdependent ones, see below). The important bits are in black, the explanations and additional conditions in grey.

—————————

Must-Have

Character Development
C1. You can role-play one or more characters (-> you control a unique avatar or party, not only uniform units)
C2. You can progressively develop character stats or abilities (-> e.g. through an in game value (usually exp. points) gained by quests, exploration, conversation, combat, …)
C3. You can equip items to enhance character stats or abilities
C4. Stat checks are required (-> you need to develop your character in order to progress and finish the game)

Exploration
E1. You can find new locations
E2. You can find and collect items (-> There is an inventory. There must be more item types than quest items, weapons, ammunition or consumable stat boosters)
E3. You can find information sources (-> e.g. NPCs, entities, objects that provide info)

Story
S1. You can get information from information sources (-> e.g. hints, goals, quests, skills, spells, training, …)
S2. You can follow quests (-> there is at least one main quest)
S3. You can progress through connected events (-> you play your characters' role)


Should-Have

Chardev
C5. You can create your characters
C6. Pre-planning is required for character development
C7. Tactical use of abilities is required (-> Primary means of problem solving, gameworld interaction and overcoming challenges. The player's physical coordination skills are secondary.)

Exploration
E4. You can find NPCs (-> Non-player characters who you can interact with)
E5. You can choose a path (-> there is at least some branching)
E6. You can interact with the game world (-> e.g. you can pull levers, push buttons, open chests, hack computers … appropriate to the game's setting)
E7. The game world can affect your characters (-> you must learn and adapt to overcome these challenges, e.g. weather, traps, closed doors, poisoned areas, …)
E8. Inaccessible areas can be reached due to character enhancements or by solving quests or puzzles (-> e.g. unlock locked areas, overcome obstacles, repair bridges, dispel barriers, …)

Story
S4. You can interact with information sources (-> e.g. NPC conversations, riddle statue questions, …)
S5. You can make choices in those interactions
S6. Some of those choices have consequences
S7. Thinking is required in order to progress (-> e.g. irreversible choices, moral dilemma, riddles, …)
S8. The story is influenced by your decisions and your characters' actions and stats or abilities

Combat
F1. Combat is influenced by character stats or abilities (-> e.g. amount of damage, chance to hit, weapon access, …)
F2. Combat involves random elements (-> e.g. game internal dice rolls)
F3. Combat provides some challenge (-> e.g. requires preparation, use of tactics or environment)

————————-

How's this? Anything amiss?


By the way, the following three points are "interdependent" and would, strictly speaking, belong in all three categories (Chardev / Exploration / Story):

(MH)
C4. Stat checks are required (-> you need to develop your character in order to progress and finish the game)

(SH)
E8. Inaccessible areas can be reached due to character enhancements or by solving quests or puzzles (-> e.g. unlock locked areas, overcome obstacles, repair bridges, dispel barriers, …)
S8. The story is influenced by your decisions and your characters' actions and stats or abilities
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November 17th, 2014, 20:33
C4/E8/S8/F1 check all for the most characteristic feature of roleplaying games: Stats!
It is good to check this feature with respect to each major category.
It is a MH in character development, because it must be in the game somewhere.

I like the grey sub clauses except for S3 and E7. In S3 and E7 the sub clauses demand more than the main clause.
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November 17th, 2014, 22:31
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
C4/E8/S8/F1 check all for the most characteristic feature of roleplaying games: Stats!
It is good to check this feature with respect to each major category.
It is a MH in character development, because it must be in the game somewhere.
I agree. Just wanted to point them out. In the NtH list I isolated interdependent points but I guess it's not necessary here.

I like the grey sub clauses except for S3 and E7. In S3 and E7 the sub clauses demand more than the main clause.
What if the S3 one was switched? Also mind that the role-play part is already in C1. Isn't that redundant? We could remove "role-play" from C1 and keep only "control". Then we could include role-play as the main point in S3… Like this, perhaps:

C1. You can control one or more characters (-> a unique avatar or party, not only uniform units)
S3. You can progress through connected events while playing your character's role.


About E7.. is this better?

E7. The game world can affect your characters such that you must learn and adapt (-> e.g. to overcome weather, traps, closed doors, poisoned areas, …)
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November 17th, 2014, 23:54
I think this is best:

C1: You can control and role-play one or more unique characters (➙ avatar or party, not only uniform units.)

E7: The gameworld can affect your character(s) conditions or circumstances in a way that you have to learn and adapt to overcome these challenges (➙ e.g. weather, traps, closed doors, poisoned areas, …)

S3: You can progress through connected events while playing your character's role.

In C1 only controlling is not enough for CRPGs.
In S3 only progressing is not enough for CRPGs.
-> they need the roleplaying side condition.

E7 is very long but I want to make clear that many things can affect your party:
Condition: poisoned, wet, deaf,slowed down…
Circumstances: closed doors, mud, traps, snow…
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November 19th, 2014, 00:26
Done.

—————————-

I. Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny





II. Defining Features


The three core categories Character Development, Exploration and Story that need to be applied and quantified to determine if an interactive computerized game can be labeled as a Computer Role Playing Game (hereafter referred to as CRPG) are listed to show the necessary component elements and qualifying factors.

Spoiler – i. Must Have

Spoiler – ii. Should Have

Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny is a CRPG.


III. Tags


Tags are computer game tags that qualify the CRPG label even further.

Classification: CRPG
Subgenre: Open World
Design: Low Fantasy
Theme: Good vs. Evil
Setting: Medieval, Alternate World
Combat Style: Turn-based
Reward System: Experience
Play Style: Single-player
Multiplayer:
Point of View: 1st-person, Isometric
Color Palette: Realistic
Control: Full Control
Voice Acting: Partially Voiced
Character Backstory: Free-form
Playtime: 40-60 hours
Funding model: Publisher


IV. Elements


Optional elements are listed in the Nice to Have (NtH) list. With it you get precise information which optional CRPG elements are implemented in the game. A general game info questionnaire is added too, to do some rating.

Spoiler – 1. Character Development

Spoiler – 2. Exploration

Spoiler – 3. Story

Spoiler – 4. Combat (Meta)





V. Fun Features


Spoiler – Fun Features


Conclusion: Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny is a classic party-based Open World CRPG with an overwhelming amount of exploration and character development options, but with very few story elements, as was common at the time.

————————-

Well, this was a fun exercise.. it's sort of relaxing filling out these check lists before going to bed, as it lets you intimately remember past gaming experiences. Was very easy to do this time.


I also reordered some of the tags in Theme and Design, with the result that there may not always be a fitting theme. Need to think about those some more.
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November 19th, 2014, 17:19
Experimenting with a dossier view. Not implemented in the analyzer tool yet.

I like this format better as it doesn't overwhelm you with a wall of text. As a side note, I re-read the first few pages of the original thread that started the whole thing and it has come a long, long way.




Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny


Classification: CRPG
Subgenre: Open World

Design: Gritty, Low Fantasy
Theme: Good vs. Evil
Setting: Alternate World, Medieval
Combat Style: Turn-based
Reward System: Experience
Play Style: Single-player
Point of View: 1st-person, Isometric
Camera: Fixed
Color Palette: Realistic
Control: Full Control
Voice Acting: Partially Voiced
Character Backstory: Free-form
Playtime: 40-60 hours
Funding model: Publisher





Spoiler – Complete CRPG analysis for RoA: Blade of Destiny

This fact sheet was created using CRPG Analyzer 1.02 Beta.
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"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
Last edited by Arhu; December 10th, 2014 at 12:36.
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November 20th, 2014, 13:27

Planescape: Torment


Classification: CRPG

Design: Dark, Gritty, Low Fantasy, W-RPG
Theme: Philosophy
Setting: Metaphysical Place, Crossworlds, Mythic
Combat Style: Pauseable Real-time
Reward System: Experience
Play Style: Single-player
Point of View: Isometric
Camera: Interactive
Color Palette: Subdued
Control: Full Control
Voice Acting: Partially Voiced
Character Backstory: Predefined, Free-form
Playtime: 40-60 hours
Funding model: Publisher





Spoiler – Complete CRPG analysis for Planescape: Torment

This fact sheet was created using CRPG Analyzer 1.02 Beta.
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
Last edited by Arhu; December 10th, 2014 at 12:35.
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November 20th, 2014, 20:06
You can distribute some stat points in Planescape Torment at character creation, but that's it. So
SC1: You can create your characters.
is a very weak yes. I would add a comment.
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November 20th, 2014, 22:43
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
You can distribute some stat points in Planescape Torment at character creation, but that's it. So
SC1: You can create your characters.
is a very weak yes. I would add a comment.
True. Done.

I had to ponder a few questions, having played the game only once a long time ago:

- what's the difference between Floating Camera and Isometric again?
- are there quests in the game that can rule others out? I'm not sure. Even the faction quests you seem to be able to do before actually joining, at least from what I've read…
- are there dark games that are not gritty? Are there bright games that are not clean? Codexers seem to prefer the term "grim" instead of "dark & gritty".

Either way, a true marvel in the CRPG world. I really need to play it again, some time -- something I rarely do, if ever.
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November 21st, 2014, 00:42
Gritty has at least three meanings:

1.) containing or covered with grit.

2.) showing courage and resolve.

3.) harsh, coarse, rough and unrefined, as in film depictions that portray life as it truly is, without false distortions, stylizations, or idealizations. Often, the realism is exaggerated such that the culture or society being portrayed appears more coarse than it really is.
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November 21st, 2014, 08:58
Yeah, 3 sounds about right.

I'm going to try and analyze Diablo 3 next, since it hasn't been long since I played it, and (maybe not) surprisingly it's nothing like D1 or D2 in that regard. D1 was really gritty and dark in all meanings of the word, D2 less so, but still pretty "dark". D3? Not gritty at all — it even had a clean feel to it. And even though you played in dungeons or at night, most of the time it wasn't dark at all; neither physically nor psychologically.
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