Shadowrun: Hong Kong - Kickstarter Update

Well what do you know it seems the Shadowrun: Hong Kong kickstarter has reached the one million dollar stretch goal. We will now be getting the free mini-expansion.

Because of your generosity, your spreading the word, and your support, we are going to be able to create an additional 4-5 hour mini-campaign to import your high-Karma character into. You are, indeed, Prime Runners.

They also released a second update with more information.

As you must imagine, we're still reeling from the news that we hit our $1,000,000 funding goal with plenty of time remaining in the Shadowrun: Hong Kong Kickstarter project. And we bet a lot of people, especially new Backers, are wondering what goal we're setting for the final 48 hours to inspire people to continue funding.

Our goal now is the same one that we had on Day 1 of this project - ship the highest quality Shadowrun game we can. We worked hard to plan our project, communicate our plan clearly, and keep to that plan even when the enthusiasm and excitement of Kickstarter was swirling all around us.

And now that the Shadows of Hong Kong Mini-Campaign is happening, where will the additional funding go? As we've said before, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy" so we'll put it towards dealing with problems that crop up during production. We'll put it towards our test budget. We'll put it towards pizza and bagels (and healthy stuff) for a team who bust their humps to deliver to the best of their ability. And we'll use it to try and sneak in little stuff that had to fall off our features list (don't ask, we're not telling).

More information.

As you can tell I'm very excited about this news so thanks everyone who backed the game with me on this website. Can't believe people said it would fail.

I'm thinking the final result will be about $1.2 million. Which will give them a nice $200K for the Drek Happens fund and hopefully allow them to polish the game, etc.

Looking forward to what will possibly be my GOTY 2015. (I dunno, there's a lot of great CRPGs coming out this year, but if HBS can actually make SRHK even better than DFDC, then I don't think anything else could top that).

Hopefully there will be some actual freedom of exploration this time because so far these games have been disappointingly linear with cosmetic fake "choices" here and there.

Looking forward to this one.

Now that this Kickstarter is coming to a close, let us direct our attention to getting Underworld Ascendant funded!

Seven hours left and Harebrained Schemes released a new update.

Final push!

While you're telling all your friends that there are mere hours left to back the project (you're doing that, right?), we thought you'd like to get a feel for what it's like during an average day making your game.

Okay, we know it's not much of a spectator sport…

We start every day standing in a circle, reporting what we did yesterday and what we plan to do today. After that, most days contain long stretches of intense silence while each person focuses on the task at hand. Those silences are punctuated by several intensely loud overlapping production conversations.

And yes, we sit very close together - wouldn't have it any other way. Communication can be really challenging in the fast-paced world of game development, so we figure that if we're sitting on top of each other there's a good chance of someone overhearing something they need to know. It may sound a little chaotic but in our experience, it's way better than the alternative.

Of course, a room full of geeks can't help but occasionally break out into a spontaneous conversation about Jupiter Ascending or something and lunches usually involve Darkest Dungeon

Originally Posted by Humanity has risen!
Hopefully there will be some actual freedom of exploration this time because so far these games have been disappointingly linear with cosmetic fake "choices" here and there.

Because real "choices" are normal in most games lol

The Apex choice in Dragonfall is more real than most RPGs.

I'm happy for fans of the SR games, though I'm also a little sad that games like this get so much more attention than bolder and more evolutionary stuff from veteran developers, like Underworld Ascendant.

Oh well, to each his own and all that.

I like SR well enough, but I think of them more as adventure games with light RPG elements. Cool stuff, but not something I can get excited by unless they significantly expand combat, progression and mechanics.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I'm happy for fans of the SR games, though I'm also a little sad that games like this get so much more attention than bolder and more evolutionary stuff from veteran developers, like Underworld Ascendant.

Oh well, to each his own and all that.

I like SR well enough, but I think of them more as adventure games with light RPG elements. Cool stuff, but not something I can get excited by unless they significantly expand combat, progression and mechanics.

Underworld Ascendant has no recent proven track record.

Also their evolutionary stuff is only words on paper at this moment and means nothing.

And Shadowrun games are not rpg lite lol. Yea it has less complex inventory management and equip options but combat options, character building and other things are better designed and more complex than most modern RPGs.
Only Divinity Original Sin is comparable or better.

Would it be more cool if it had Fallout style overland map? Yes. But for a 15-20$ game, what we got is very good and cool.
I do hope one day they make a 35-40$ RPG but it is not fair to call what we get now a RPG lite. It is only a shorter campaign.

Originally Posted by Archangel
Underworld Ascendant has no recent proven track record.

Also their evolutionary stuff is only words on paper at this moment and means nothing.

And Shadowrun games are not rpg lite lol. Yea it has less complex inventory management and equip options but combat options, character building and other things are better designed and more complex than most modern RPGs.
Only Divinity Original Sin is comparable or better.

Would it be more cool if it had Fallout style overland map? Yes. But for a 15-20$ game, what we got is very good and cool.
I do hope one day they make a 35-40$ RPG but it is not fair to call what we get now a RPG lite. It is only a shorter campaign.

As I said, I consider it to be light RPG elements. Everything is watered down and the focus is on story and dialogue.

That's fine if you're into that stuff.

Wasteland 2 is another crowdfunded example of a much more elaborate RPG system. I won't go into the dozens of modern RPGs that destroy SR in terms of mechanics and progression.

As for what you think is fair to call it, that's not really my concern.

That's why I said to each his own.

Wasteland 2 is not elaborate, at least not in its current condition.

I think people somehow feel SRR has a bad character system because of UI and lack of exact numbers behind it. Just like DAO, the game hides the numbers. You put points into stuff based on its descriptions and only in combat you get to see if anything changed.

I cannot say I would not be happy with exact numbers being a min maxer myself but it does not make the system less complex.
The UI is another thing. It puts attributes, skills and feats all part of some UI which makes is only seem less complex.

The truth is that attributes both give different bonuses and are a requirement for skills (something that WL2 lacks), the system is actually close to Fallout where attribute contributed to total skill value.

Skill are often both combat skills and non-combat skills and that also confuses people. I find it different but not worse.

Only real complaint could be said about its feat/talent system that is lumped together with skills. You unlock those just by putting enough points into certain skills, there is not freeform choice. But SRR does not have levels which are used in other games to regulate feat/talent gain. They could have made a separate list of these feats/talents where you can choose them and gated them with prerequisite attribute and skill value but it would only be an illusion of choice. The current UI does it the same except you don't need to pay additional Karma to purchase the feat/talent.

I don't really care about visible numbers so long as there's a sufficient amount of interesting and important choices. I care about evolved progression and lots of toys.

I don't want to pick a class and focus on a weapon style - and then have a tiny handful of abilities presented in a single progression line.

To me, that's predictable and boring. I want a ton of diversity and I want stuff like meaningful stealth, elaborate mechanics like hacking, lockpicking, trap disarming and so forth. I don't want to play a boring cyberspace mini-game that's always a matter of grinding down AI mobs to click on a port to open something. That's boring and something I consider filler content in place of real content.

I want to mod weapons and I enjoy crafting when it's done right.

I like loot with special properties.

I like environments with a lot of stuff to interact with - and I want meaningful exploration, where I'm rewarded for going out of my way to find things.

I don't enjoy large open rooms with a very small selection of hotspots that I can click.

I could go on, but it's pretty obvious that we don't see eye to eye on Shadowrun.

I don't have a problem with you liking the game - and I don't mind that you think it's elaborate. We all have different standards for such things. It's no big deal.

But I most certainly don't agree at all that Shadowrun is using an elaborate system.

I do think it's a nice little game with good writing - and I think of it as a snack that I don't mind paying for. But I would never confuse it with a meaty RPG suited to my preferences.

So glad to see it doing so well. I loved Dragonfall to bits, and as a proof of concept DMS wasn't half bad.

For me, it's the mix of XCom/Laser Squad style combat, with an RPG structure, and good writing. I like it very much, but I agree that the systems could be deepened, and more exploration/loot would be an easy improvement that would take it up a notch.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I don't really care about visible numbers so long as there's a sufficient amount of interesting and important choices. I care about evolved progression and lots of toys.
The game as as much choice and any other modern RPG and close to some older ones. Lots of toys it does not have, but it also does not have so little you get to call it an adventure

I don't want to pick a class and focus on a weapon style - and then have a tiny handful of abilities presented in a single progression line.
So don't. You can make your own character and put Karma points wherever. You probably just didn't bother making different characters. I did.

To me, that's predictable and boring. I want a ton of diversity and I want stuff like meaningful stealth, elaborate mechanics like hacking, lockpicking, trap disarming and so forth. I don't want to play a boring cyberspace mini-game that's always a matter of grinding down AI mobs to click on a port to open something. That's boring and something I consider filler content in place of real content.
If you mean elaborate as in minigames.. ugh not thank you. Minigames are all stupid, I hate that shit. If not, SRR/DFC has those but it does not use the random roll system which is OK. Personally I don't mind if a game uses a random roll like WL2 or not.
I agree that cyberspace was not good enough. But 15$ game, you expect too much. HK has promised to make it better.

I want to mod weapons and I enjoy crafting when it's done right.
Modding weapons would be cool. It is something devs want to but are not able to do at the moment. I am sure for next KS that will be one of the new features.

I like loot with special properties.
SRR/DFC has those, but not much. But HK is going to have more of those.

I like environments with a lot of stuff to interact with - and I want meaningful exploration, where I'm rewarded for going out of my way to find things.
SRR/DFC has that. Most levels had alternative options that depended upon the player exploring and prodding and having right skills. I finished SRR 5 times and on many missions there was more than 2 ways to progress and some of them often were only available if you had right skills

I don't enjoy large open rooms with a very small selection of hotspots that I can click.
That part could have been done better. Yes, this part feels most like an adventure game but only because of UI. In reality it is not much different. It is like if in WL2 you clicked on something and the game automatically chose the right skill for that interaction, it is a matter of UI only.

I could go on, but it's pretty obvious that we don't see eye to eye on Shadowrun.
No we don't. I don't consider SRR/DFC best game ever and I understand it has flaws and that it can be expanded but for sure it does not deserve to be called adventure game with rpg lite options. It is neither of those, just a 15$ RPG with limitations and awesome story/storytelling.

Answers in red

I'm afraid you have no say when it comes to what I call things. DMS was an adventure with light RPG elements. But that's just my opinion and opinions differ

I've only played a few hours of Dragonfall - and it's clearly a bit better when it comes to party managment and it's less linear, which I like. But the mechanics weren't expanded - certainly not enough to keep my interest. So, I doubt I would start calling it a satisfying RPG any time soon. But maybe one day, when I get back to it.

I don't mind listening to the opinions of others - but there's little you can do to change reality as I see it. If you insist on trying, though, you can knock yourself out

As for Hong Kong, it does sound like it will be a decent upgrade. It might just be enough to qualify as an RPG to my mind. We'll see.

As for spending Karma "whereever" - I didn't really feel like creating a weak character by dividing points into trees that wouldn't complement each other. That would require a system designed around meaningful choices, and all you'd end up with would be a gimped character that wasn't as effective as he/she could be in any given scenario.

The game is clearly designed around each party member focusing on a single area - and that's fine. The problem was that each area had little or no choice to speak of.

At least, that was my experience.

But I'm glad we agree that it was limited - and that you recognise many of the flaws I'm talking about.

Once again, I'm also glad you enjoyed yourself.

Also, I don't know why you think this is about what I expect based on price. I don't evaluate games based on price. I evaluate games based on what they're like to play. My mind wouldn't change if the game was free or if it cost 1000$. It would still be an adventure game with light RPG elements.

However, if we're talking about value for money - then I think SR is decent value for money, if you like adventure games with light RPG elements. In fact, I think it's good value for money.

Maybe it's ok that we don't agree about everything? I certainly think so.

Late KS entry but i'm in!

They had a pretty nice run there in the last few days; about +300k, it looks like.

Yup, they enjoyed a solid bump in the end. Not surprising, given how much people enjoyed the first one they did.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I'm happy for fans of the SR games, though I'm also a little sad that games like this get so much more attention than bolder and more evolutionary stuff from veteran developers, like Underworld Ascendant..

My thought exactly - I pledged support and wanted both funded, but it is sad to see one get 1200% support and the other struggling to make the goal … I just hope it gets there.

For me … more games = better. That way it is possible to have these types of debates.