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Elder Scrolls Online
July 15th, 2015, 14:00
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002I'm saying the style is the same across all games, because they're based on the same lore and share a clear foundation.
The lore in Morrowind is deeper than Oblivion and Skyrim. I hunted down and read everything, found the shrines and absorbed it all. It's one of the best aspects of the game and fundamental if you want to get the most out of the main quest. Dart you usually make intelligent if annoying posts but on Morrowind you are clearly ignorant.
As for "deep" lore, I'm not sure what you mean. If you're talking about the amount of books to be found, I'm pretty sure Skyrim has more than both Morrowind and Oblivion. At worst, the amount is very similar.
Look for yourself:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Books_(Skyrim)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Books_(Morrowind)
Found it:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/C…:Books_by_Game
432 books in Morrowind and 660 books in Skyrim. Both for base games without expansions.
It's cool that you like Morrowind more, but claiming I'm ignorant because of that is not what I'd call a convincing statement.
Just because you happened to hunt them all down in Morrowind, means absolutely nothing in terms of how much lore is there.
So, exactly what do you mean by "deeper" and why is your opinion of it relevant? I'm not talking about one game being necessarily deeper than the other. I'm saying the STYLE is very similar, regardless of nostalgic delusion.
Guest
July 15th, 2015, 14:09
Go look up Vivec, the Ministry of Truth, Red Mountain, gods and battles etc. it's all immediately relevant to the main plot. The whole thing reeks of lore.
--
"For Innos!"
"For Innos!"
July 15th, 2015, 14:10
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002You're not answering the question.
Go look up Vivec, the Ministry of Truth, Red Mountain, gods and battles etc. it's all immediately relevant to the main plot. The whole thing reeks of lore.
I'm not asking why you like the lore, I'm asking exactly why it's deeper than Skyrim - and why it means I'm ignorant.
Guest
July 15th, 2015, 14:29
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002Why would Dunmer's cultures reeks more of lore than the Nord's cultures (which is the Altmoran's culture as explained by Skyrim…if you bother paying attention)?
Go look up Vivec, the Ministry of Truth, Red Mountain, gods and battles etc. it's all immediately relevant to the main plot. The whole thing reeks of lore.
Because that's the only difference between Morrowind and Skyrim. The first one focus on the Dunmers and the second one on the Nords.
--
It's developer is owned by Sony which means it'll remain a hostage of inferior hardware. ~ joxer
It's developer is owned by Sony which means it'll remain a hostage of inferior hardware. ~ joxer
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor
July 15th, 2015, 15:52
Its way beyond that. Guys Red Mountain, the whole volcanic zone, Vivec the living God is all core to the roots of Tamriel and integrated into the main plot. Dagoth Ur and ending the Blight? Did you guys even play the game? Dart at least I suspect did not.
--
"For Innos!"
"For Innos!"
July 15th, 2015, 17:20
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002Core to the roots of Tamriel?
Its way beyond that. Guys Red Mountain, the whole volcanic zone, Vivec the living God is all core to the roots of Tamriel and integrated into the main plot. Dagoth Ur and ending the Blight? Did you guys even play the game? Dart at least I suspect did not.
The events of Red Mountain are self-contained to Morrowind, it was pure local squabbles between people who lived for way too long out of someone else essence. The plot was basically explaining where the Numidium in Daggerfall come from.
Oblivion moved the story to explain about the Amulet of Kings, the blood of Alessia and the pact with Akatosh (some of this stuff date back to Daggerfall). TESO is about what happen want there is no wearer for the Amulet for too long…
Skyrim is all about Akatosh and his angels (dragons) and how one of them decided to conquer Tamriel for himself in the far away past but was "defeated" by a Nord which spawned a myth about the World-Eater after centuries.
Each games also focus on the local cultures which varies a lot between the different provinces.
--
It's developer is owned by Sony which means it'll remain a hostage of inferior hardware. ~ joxer
It's developer is owned by Sony which means it'll remain a hostage of inferior hardware. ~ joxer
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor
July 15th, 2015, 17:22
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002I guess your refusal to reply to my question and this utterly useless explanation of how it's "way" beyond Skyrim - tells us all we need to know about your level of insight into the topic at hand. I might not have loved Morrowind like you do - which I know is very hard for you to deal with and obviously some kind of sin, but I played it for weeks before I decided it wasn't for me.
Its way beyond that. Guys Red Mountain, the whole volcanic zone, Vivec the living God is all core to the roots of Tamriel and integrated into the main plot. Dagoth Ur and ending the Blight? Did you guys even play the game? Dart at least I suspect did not.
For how long did you play Skyrim? Sounds like you know next to nothing about it, really.
I hope you enjoyed your session.
Guest
July 15th, 2015, 17:47
I think Elder Scrolls in general has great lore. The Daedra, Nine Divines, Tamriel itself, etc. All great stuff.
I think I was most connected to Tamriel by playing Morrowind. The lore in that game does go very deep. It feels as though you are really there exploring this alien world. It was the first Elder Scrolls game where I spent hours upon hours collecting every book I could find and reading them all. It was amazing.
I think ES games in general do a phenomenal job of creating plausible worlds that make sense. I really don't think that is diminished much in Oblivion and Skyrim. In fact, I'm playing Oblivion right now and absolutely loving my time spent in Cyrodiil. It's just as magical as Morrowind except a bit less alien and more "Imperial-ized".
Of course, if Bethesda decides to go to the Black Marsh or Elsweyr for the next game, it will be an alien world again like Morrowind to explore. I look forward to that as a bit of change of pace in the series.
I definitely don't agree with diminishing later Elder Scrolls games in favor of Morrowind. Morrowind is amazing, but so are both Oblivion AND Skyrim. They are great games and I'm very happy we can play them.
I think I was most connected to Tamriel by playing Morrowind. The lore in that game does go very deep. It feels as though you are really there exploring this alien world. It was the first Elder Scrolls game where I spent hours upon hours collecting every book I could find and reading them all. It was amazing.
I think ES games in general do a phenomenal job of creating plausible worlds that make sense. I really don't think that is diminished much in Oblivion and Skyrim. In fact, I'm playing Oblivion right now and absolutely loving my time spent in Cyrodiil. It's just as magical as Morrowind except a bit less alien and more "Imperial-ized".
Of course, if Bethesda decides to go to the Black Marsh or Elsweyr for the next game, it will be an alien world again like Morrowind to explore. I look forward to that as a bit of change of pace in the series.
I definitely don't agree with diminishing later Elder Scrolls games in favor of Morrowind. Morrowind is amazing, but so are both Oblivion AND Skyrim. They are great games and I'm very happy we can play them.
Guest
July 15th, 2015, 18:24
I'm actually trying to read more about the Elder Scrolls' lore so that I can join the discussion and tell you all that you are wrong.
http://www.tentonhammer.com/teso/eld…ls-lore-primer
http://www.tentonhammer.com/teso/eld…ls-lore-primer
SasqWatch
| +1: |
July 15th, 2015, 19:18
Ha! Today I learned that The Elder Scrolls Online's lore should logically be better than Morrowind's, since it has been said that the quality of the lore has been gradually going down and TESO takes place in the Second Era, 714 years before.
SasqWatch
July 15th, 2015, 19:38
I completed Oblivion and spent a few hundred hours in Skyrim. I don't recall the lore being as rich and integrated into the main plot. Maybe I'll revisit if I'm selling it shot. I haven't wavered in my conviction that Dart is a pompous tool however.
--
"For Innos!"
"For Innos!"
| +1: |
July 15th, 2015, 20:50
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002No, you're right. The lore is not as entwined in the main story as it is in Morrowind. That's one of the great aspects of Morrowind.
I completed Oblivion and spent a few hundred hours in Skyrim. I don't recall the lore being as rich and integrated into the main plot. Maybe I'll revisit if I'm selling it shot..
Oblivion and Skyrim still have fine lore, it's just a bit more streamlined than Morrowind.
Guest
| +1: |
July 15th, 2015, 21:14
Yeah, Morrowind was kinda hard to get into, past the getting dumped into a big, strange, new world part.
Back to TESO, though, I continue to be entertained just wandering around the game world and running into new story quests and other things. I've never played an MMO quite like this. I think I'll be entertained just by the exploration for quite some time!
Back to TESO, though, I continue to be entertained just wandering around the game world and running into new story quests and other things. I've never played an MMO quite like this. I think I'll be entertained just by the exploration for quite some time!
SasqWatch
July 15th, 2015, 21:18
Fluent hit the nail on the head. But then again, if one did not bother to really read all the lore books in Morrowind nor complete the game, one wouldn't know that. People who are ignorant about this subject shouldn't be spouting advice about whether the lore of ESO is as deep and connected to both the plot and setting and environment of Morrowind.
July 15th, 2015, 21:39
I think you missed the part where it was a bit hard to get into. The lore and plot could be better than awesome, but if it's presented in an uninteresting manner, then most people will never get to the point of reading all the lore and finishing the game.
SasqWatch
July 15th, 2015, 21:44
The lore remains very similar in all games.
There's nothing more "mainstream" about text on pages in Skyrim than text on pages in Morrowind. You don't have to read a lot of them to see it's exactly the same style of writing - most likely by the same people in many cases.
Still, I know the disappointment of Oblivion made a lot of people think everything about Bethesda was somehow shallow and mainstream after that point.
In the real world, however, their games are still trying to give players the same experience - only technology has evolved a lot since Morrowind.
Oblivion was something of a misstep in several ways, I'll grant that - but it was also quite bold in other ways.
Skyrim, however, is the first and only TES game that truly works on almost all levels.
Still, to each his own. This obsession with Morrowind, I'll have to write down to youthful excitement
There's nothing more "mainstream" about text on pages in Skyrim than text on pages in Morrowind. You don't have to read a lot of them to see it's exactly the same style of writing - most likely by the same people in many cases.
Still, I know the disappointment of Oblivion made a lot of people think everything about Bethesda was somehow shallow and mainstream after that point.
In the real world, however, their games are still trying to give players the same experience - only technology has evolved a lot since Morrowind.
Oblivion was something of a misstep in several ways, I'll grant that - but it was also quite bold in other ways.
Skyrim, however, is the first and only TES game that truly works on almost all levels.
Still, to each his own. This obsession with Morrowind, I'll have to write down to youthful excitement
Guest
| +1: |
July 15th, 2015, 21:54
It's not the superficial presentation or style of the lore that we care about, it's the depth and connectedness of the content to the setting/environment/story/NPCs. Oblivion and Skyrim were very lacking in that regard wrt to Morrowind.
July 15th, 2015, 22:01
How is the lore in Skyrim not connected to the plot and setting of Skyrim? It's all about an ancient Nord's myth that requires the player to dig in ancient Nord history to understand and the Thu'um, a Nord magic, to defeat.
As for ESO, it covers all of Tamriel in the 2nd Era and it has a main story, three alliance main stories and zone main stories for each zones. There is at least one zone per province, although Eslweyr gets the smallest one. The lore in the game goes all over the place. From expanding almost unknown stuff like the Maormers to showing how barmy Shegorath can be.
As for ESO, it covers all of Tamriel in the 2nd Era and it has a main story, three alliance main stories and zone main stories for each zones. There is at least one zone per province, although Eslweyr gets the smallest one. The lore in the game goes all over the place. From expanding almost unknown stuff like the Maormers to showing how barmy Shegorath can be.
--
It's developer is owned by Sony which means it'll remain a hostage of inferior hardware. ~ joxer
It's developer is owned by Sony which means it'll remain a hostage of inferior hardware. ~ joxer
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor
July 15th, 2015, 22:06
Originally Posted by azarhalDepth and breadth of connectedness to NPCs and locations you can visit in the world is not nearly as much as Morrowind. It's a matter of degree. At some point a threshold is met that makes the whole experience more engaging. Skyrim was close, but not quite as good as Morrowind, IMHO.
How is the lore in Skyrim not connected to the plot and setting of Skyrim? It's all about an ancient Nord's myth that requires the player to dig in ancient Nord history to understand and the Thu'um, a Nord magic, to defeat. .
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