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RPGWatch Forums » Games » Indie RPG » Antharion

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July 23rd, 2015, 12:35
Glad I read all this. I was about to start a game but now I think I'll wait a month or two. Apparently their Beta was fairly ineffective!
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July 23rd, 2015, 15:30
It's still a lot of fun, Todd, but I'd wait till they calm down on the patching. I'm still playing it, but I never know when a patch will gimp my party.
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July 23rd, 2015, 16:00
skill requirements are bad for lockpicking, obviously. There aren't a million locks in the game, contrary to the number of enemies. So in fact it would be better if there were fixed requirements to hit enemies than to unlock chests, as you never know which skill value will open the next lock. The distance between them is simply too large.

What bothers me most personally is that I could have easily gimped my archer's bow skill in favor of more lockpicking, but it simply wasn't needed until now. If they wanted lockpicking to work that way they should have done it from the start.
[/rant]

Also toning down on the skill points is a bad decision IMO. The game's logic dictates that you don't raise non-combat skills early on when the profits are marginal - there's no way to build an effective alchemist from the start. This isn't Darklands after all.

Still enjoying the game, but I'm also a bit wary about future changes.

edit: oh and yeah, backtracking because you couldn't open a door/ unlock a chest/ disarm a trap/ pickpocket a certain NPC is the greatest PITA ever. Starting with the fact that I despise games that force you to keep a text file ready.

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July 23rd, 2015, 16:10
The biggest miss is the mini-map/automap. You cannot scroll the mini-map. You can see in roughly a 30 ft area at all times, but you can't zoom out to see if you missed a path, which way you went at the last turn, etc. I can't believe a game got released where you must backtrack constantly to see what you might have missed.

I also hate, hate, hate backtracking because of a skill that isn't up to snuff. If I'm strong enough to defeat the denizens, then all treasures should also be reachable. Another hatred, is fighting a super tough battle only to be rewarded with an item I can't use for 10 more levels. There are some horrid design decisions in this game that mitigate a lot of the fun.
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July 23rd, 2015, 16:14
I've really enjoyed this game for the past few months, but with all these recent adjustments I'm going to stop playing for a month or three till it all settles down. Sadly I had way more fun playing it before it was released. Perhaps at some point they will understand that pandering to every darn player request that is submitted doesn't necessarily improve the game.
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July 23rd, 2015, 16:21
Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
Perhaps at some point they will understand that pandering to every darn player request that is submitted doesn't necessarily improve the game.
This!
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July 23rd, 2015, 19:35
I think we almost all agree he should revert changes to this game, work on bugs only, and develop a sequel with the same type of open world questing format, quest design, etc, with the same art assets, but use the D20 OGL like Knights of the Chalice did.

That will address every weak point of this game, from item drops to chests, etc. This game would have been the new Knights of the Chalice if they took this route. Even with a very basic combat system, and all the issues with the skill system, this game is still a ton of fun. But I think its fun because people want more games like this (create a party, go questing, in the Dark Sun, ToEE, Gold Box, Buck Rogers, Knights of the Chalice game formula). Especially now since KotC 2 seems to be dseigned differently than 1.

I didn't leave any negative reviews or remarks on the steam forum because I want this dev to sell well and make a sequel quickly (but with overhauled rpg, character and combat systems, preferably d20 OGL since we know it works well in these types of games). Its in everyone's best interest that likes these types of games to rally around a developer that is really getting the game type and questing right.
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July 23rd, 2015, 20:58
Well, I disagree
While some of the changes should not have been made in a live version, I welcome post release balancing, and I would have welcomed if Pillars of Eternity for example had fixed petrify, which made boss fights trivial, right away and not after I spent weeks on the game already and finished it. Or wasteland 2 which had a crappy combat all along. These are games which weren't exactly "finished" at release either.

That said, they just released another patch, which further balanced barter (implemented a good suggestion crpgnut made even though he is against further changes) and they also implemented an option to switch lock picking back to the old system.
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July 23rd, 2015, 21:25
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
Well, I disagree
While some of the changes should not have been made in a live version, I welcome post release balancing, and I would have welcomed if Pillars of Eternity for example had fixed petrify, which made boss fights trivial, right away and not after I spent weeks on the game already and finished it. Or wasteland 2 which had a crappy combat all along. These are games which weren't exactly "finished" at release either.

That said, they just released another patch, which further balanced barter (implemented a good suggestion crpgnut made even though he is against further changes) and they also implemented an option to switch lock picking back to the old system.
PoE's combat was trivial without petrify. I've never used petrify in that game and I rolled through everything without even sort of trying. I didn't beat the game (I get bored with most games before finishing, especially when combat is really boring).

WL2 had a stat and skill system that worked well, was balanced per area, and supported different kinds of builds. The combat was far less basic and simple than in this game. I am waiting for the new version with perks to give it a second run, as work got in the way of my first playthrough.

But, what do you disagree with exactly? Them coming out with a sequel that uses D20 OGL like Knights of the Chalice did? Or that they should keep putting out patches that drastically change gameplay and gimps people's playthoughs?
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July 23rd, 2015, 21:40
PoE on Hard was enjyoable and hard for the first half of the game. The second half had trivial trash instead but also two boss fights which were trivialized by petrify. That said they also had various bugs but that's another story.

WL2 didn't really offer more tactics than Antharion does. At least if you went for the maximum efficiency: Everyone equipped with guns. The only tactic was: Whom to shoot first, whom second, whom third. The character system was one of the most horrible I have seen in years, maybe since Oblivion for all kinds of reasons.

I honestly don't know what "D20 OGL" means (and don't want to read into it atm) in terms of game systems so I cannot comment on that.

What I disagree on is that they should stop changing and improving the game alltogether besides of bugs. Should they be more careful with changes? Certainly.

To me there is absolutely 0 use of a Remastered Edition or whatever they call it now like in Wasteland 2. Why? Because I already finished the damn game. I am certainly not playing it again when all the other cool stuff is being released.

Also they didn't gimp my playthrough but made it more enjoyable by introducing the fixed locks and removing the cap.

Oh, and to mention one more thing: Would have loved if Skyrim's balancing issues were fixed in the first weeks. While I consider it a great game, the balancing was horrible and it made Skyrim one of the very few RPGs which I did not finish due to being boring after 2/3 of its content.
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July 23rd, 2015, 21:58
I don't mind the changes either, per se. Just when they happened. I'd built my party based on the rules the day I started the game. If locks were a set number on day one, cool that's the way the game was meant to be played and I would have rolled a dedicated lockpicker. Since locks were random, I just bought a bunch of keys and reloaded if it took me more than X number of tries.

For instance, let's say you have a 20% to open a lock. If I spent more than 6 keys, I'd reload. I had built my game with the percentages in mind.

Since I started over yesterday and now have a dedicated lockpicker, I may not go back to my old party. Gotta think about it. They're level 12-ish and I'm only level 4 or 5 with the new group. I basically went 3 misc guys and a black mage. I've used every skill point on Forage, Lockpick, Pickpocket, and Barter. Except for the mage who is almost all black with a little lore thrown in. I've avoided as many indoor locations as possible in hopes of getting good loot with Forage once I enter the locales.

You beta-tested K. When do treasure chests seem to populate; on first entering a location or radius, or at the time you open the chest or slay the monster?
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July 23rd, 2015, 22:02
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
Oh, and to mention one more thing: Would have loved if Skyrim's balancing issues were fixed in the first weeks. While I consider it a great game, the balancing was horrible and it made Skyrim one of the very few RPGs which I did not finish due to being boring after 2/3 of its content.
If Skyrim was a 40 hour game with minimal skills, graphics, art, etc. Bethesda might have fixed all of those things in a few weeks….nah!
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July 23rd, 2015, 22:55
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
You beta-tested K. When do treasure chests seem to populate; on first entering a location or radius, or at the time you open the chest or slay the monster?
Only checked like 3h in beta.

And I guess I wouldn't necessarily even see the difference between different foraging skills. Now with foraging 100 I got more of random gold in stuff. But it doesnt "feel" like a big difference.

All I can say about when what is done, is to quote the developer:

When talking about containers and not creatures, certain loot is fixed as in yours will be the same as mine. Other loot is randomly generated at the beginning of a new game. While a certain minority of loot is indeed randomly generated (based on foraging + luck) upon opening a container. But this last one represents a small enough chunk (I'm guessing around 5%) of overall loot that it would not be worth your while to savescum - 95% if the time you'd get the same item.
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July 24th, 2015, 01:18
I know you said you didn't want to know but I'll learn you real good!!!

If you like the mechanics of Knights of the Chalice or Temple of Elemental Evil you like D20 (KotOR and the NWNs were poorer implementations of D20). OGL means open gaming license, anyone can use it for free with the right credits.

Now you know, and that is half the battle. Go unrestigered!!!!!
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July 29th, 2015, 01:27
I'm enjoying the Hell out of this little game. I'm around level 9-ish right now and having a blast just exploring. Reminds me of old school Pool of Radiance/Might and Magic in the exploration factor, kinda. You can just wander around, build up your group (in a lot of different ways) and work on gaining equipment. Satisfying, but nothing groundbreaking.

It's fun.
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July 29th, 2015, 01:29
(Also loved Knights of the Chalice but somehow I couldn't get past the graphics, they just don't do it for me. And I like the graphics in Antharion, Spiderweb Software games, etc - KotC was just too… ugh. The combat system in that game - the d20 - is indeed one of the best ever used in a turn-based tactical CRPG. The only MMO I ever play, Dungeons & Dragons Online, uses a heavily modified version of the d20 system.)
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July 29th, 2015, 01:32
Yep, I pretty much got the same pain threshhold regarding graphics.
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August 5th, 2015, 11:55
Plays pretty nice with the current changes with locks set to % and pickpocket also must be left on %.
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August 5th, 2015, 20:01
I'd say the opposite and recommend to have it on fixed values.
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August 29th, 2015, 07:37
Any of you guys still playing it? Are the devs still tweaking the balance?

I grabbed it last night during a sale at the Humble Store. Hilarious that it's only a 160mb install.
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