Darkest Dungeon - The Perils of Early Access

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur

It is delusional to intent to discuss the birds flying overhead when people fail to see the birds flying overhead.

Best line ever, like bat shit crazy awesome

It's useless to discuss different combat styles in RPG's with someone who doesn't game. Just as it is useless for me to try and hold a discussion on this forum about the impact neutrinos have on an isolated carbon sheet in a shielded vaccuum.

No discussion possible without some common ground.

Right, but learning the pragmatics of how to communicate is a vitally important part of the English language. Learning the mechanics of how to use grammar is only part of becoming fluent in a language. You also have to learn how people actually speak, and how to make yourself understood. Chien's mechanics are decent, not great, but good enough. But his pragmatics are atrocious, some of the worst that I have ever seen. People who speak with poor grammar and broken English communicate much better than he does. And I'm not really sure if he understands most of what we are saying to him either.

Originally Posted by wolfing
His English is not bad, it's just that he speaks like someone from Victorian England with long words and flourishes. Instead of saying "I don't like the game because it's dark" he says something like "The idiosyncrasy of the game is such that the chromatic spectrum is heavily biased towards the ultraviolet aspects, thus rendering useless a wide fulcrum of possibilities".

Alec over at RockPaperShotgun had a bit to say about the corpses. Long story short corpses and heart attacks don't make the game more difficult just more trivial.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015…ns-difficulty/

Originally Posted by rune_74
I only said what I said, not solely because of what you wrote, but because every time there is a thread on this game you add two to three pages of your opinions that you pass off as facts.

And that's the main reason why I don't read his posts (and not just because of the crappy English): he always states his opinions as facts, claiming devs strayed from their vision in this game or that -- they're the devs, it's their vision, don't you think they know better than you!? -- and if you don't get or agree to what he's saying, you're a retard.

Sorry for the off topic.

Originally Posted by Sacred_Path
Can't see any birds? That's because only Chien can see them.

In the case of DD, certainly not.

Other players made the same observations.
A platform like Twitch gives the opportunity to ask questions to streamers.

Players playing in a certain way revealed information. Their stream was enough to make the observations. Asking them points about their playstyle added the information they were aware of their way of playing.

For example, streams of players ignoring light, quirks, mental sanity were enough to draw the conclusion that light, quirks, mental sanity could be ignored. They were showing it live.
When asked, usually, players confirmed they ignored light, quirks, mental sanity.
It showed they were aware of the way they play.

He's like the Celtic envoy to Rome who only has a limited grasp of the common language but reads us the auguries so we can divine the quality of unfinished RPG's.


close thread y/n

No level in language is required to make those observations.
People tend to pay no attention to things they have no interest in.
Observations made earlier were plain, obvious.
Just like birds flying overhead. People with no interest in birds might fail to take notice of them.
When this happens, it is safe not to seek to discuss birds with those people. Because they have no interest in birds.

The same observations could have been reported in many other posts on this site.
People failed to make those observations for themselves because they have no interest in that.

When applied to the previous posts, it means that players who had interest already made those observations for themselves. They did need to read the posts.
Players who did not make those observations also do not need to read them as they wont find any interesting since they have no interest for the matter.

In other words, the level of english they are written in is moot.

Played DD with that peculiar interest? The observations were already made.
Played DD without that interest? The observations are not interesting.

Chien, they're not trying to argue your points. They're saying they don't understand what points you're trying to make. You might very well be right in your opinions (because they are opinions, NOT facts), but it is often very hard to understand WHAT your opinion is behind the language you are using. It's got nothing to to with us being bad players/bad observers. Hell, I *think* I even egree with you on a lot of the points you make. But it's really hard to know for sure…

Exactly what tomasp3n says. It's not that I necessarily disagree with Chien's points. It's that I don't understand what he's trying to say. From what little I can understand, I also suspect that I might agree with some of the things he is saying, if only he could find a way to communicate them.

But ultimately it's probably pointless to try to explain this to Chien if he doesn't speak English well enough to understand what we are saying.

Originally Posted by tomasp3n
Chien, they're not trying to argue your points. They're saying they don't understand what points you're trying to make. You might very well be right in your opinions (because they are opinions, NOT facts), but it is often very hard to understand WHAT your opinion is behind the language you are using. It's got nothing to to with us being bad players/bad observers. Hell, I *think* I even egree with you on a lot of the points you make. But it's really hard to know for sure…

It's been now two decades racing games introduced designs to push cars.
Mechanical elements like tires, brakes, the engine can be managed in such way it gives players the opportunity to push the car they drive.
Those various elements might be stressed in degrees, the player's decision allowing to toe the line.

DD was supposed to be about pushing heroes.
The heart attack, which was introduced to force players to consider taking into account the mental stress as a mattering decision factor is a brutal means that does not work toward enabling to push heroes.

In the current version, the mental stress can still be ignored until it cant no longer be ignored. The heart attack stops brutally.

Applied to racing games, a similar feature would be explosion. The stress of mechanical elements could be ignored until they could not be ignored as the car explodes.
Such design would jeopardize pushing cars.

Of course, as recalled, racing games are past this kind of design. Racing games exhibits an arsenal of designed means to support pushing cars.
As racing car gamers push their cars, it goes along with a deterioriation in the car's performances. It is all up to the gamers to compensate for the loss in performances.

Originally Posted by tomasp3n
Chien, they're not trying to argue your points. They're saying they don't understand what points you're trying to make. You might very well be right in your opinions (because they are opinions, NOT facts)

Always the same point over and over again.
Some opinions might not be fact based. It does not mean there cant be based fact opinions.
At some point, tricks must be renewed or they get overused. Implying an opposition between facts and opinions is overused.

Of course they are not trying to argue the points. There is nothing to argue.

The points were observations, plain and simple to get. On the same level as telling there are trees around when in the middle of the woods.

It takes no genius to make this kind of observation. It is remarked though that on this site, some observations on DD are not widely reported.
There could be dozens of posts reporting those observations, just as there are dozens of streamers who made those observations for themselves.
Not the case.