Torment: Tides of Numenera - Beta Part 2

Originally Posted by sea
Wouldn't you prefer combat that's interesting and different and worth playing, instead of something you just want to skip past?

I'm definitely torn there. In a game where combat isn't the focus, time spent on developing combat is mostly time wasted. If the combat is good, and if there are incentives to do combat, then players will want to do it, and they will complain if there's not enough combat. If there are no incentives and the combat system is good, then people will complain about combat not being worthwhile. Either way, it seems to me that InXile will lose if they spend too much time and energy on the combat system.

Originally Posted by Sacred_Path
In a game where combat isn't the focus, time spent on developing combat is mostly time wasted.

Nope.

strong post

What else do you expect… did you even read what you said?

lets take an example here…. AoD is a game where combat isn't the focus, right… But it still has combat, for those who choose it. So explain to me how they wasted time on combat? Many people enjoy the unforgiving combat in AoD, despite the game being focused on non-violence

Originally Posted by luj1
lets take an example here…. AoD is a game where combat isn't the focus, right

what else is the focus of AoD? Scripted stat checks?

Torment is a game that focuses on writing, storytelling, dialogue. I've never yet read any posts about how people play AoD non-violently, because frankly I don't think there's enough meat to that game to make that interesting.

Yeah there is …. you can beat the game with social skills alone… combat is fully optional, but that doesn't mean they wasted time developing it…. And yes, torment was primarily about narrative… but it had combat and that's completely fine… Its not a waste

For PS:T, the story/writing etc were the driver of the game and since T:ToN is meant to be spiritual successor of PS:T, I would like to experience engrossing and meaningful plot - I'm afraid TB combat will break the immersion, especially if they follow the D:OS' example. Last thing I want is going through a loooooooooooong (even if it's fun and engaging combat) battle and have to reload or completely forgotten the story/dialogue whatever.

I just don't think youre being realistic here. Long battles are going to happen one way or another. Do you remember the Carceri/Baator arc? You needed to battle through several overrun areas , with almost no dialogue, to reach the Pillar of Skulls. Did that cause you to forget Planescape's story? I don't think so, youre not a goldfish hun (30s attention span)

It's just I have much less time now days and don't get to play game as often as 10-15years back. I do actually forget what I was doing or the part of the story after a long-ish break in between especially if I left the game after a long combat :/

Either way, they've already decided on TB combat and that's not going to change. I just hope it will be implemented well.

It will , don't worry…. Im sure the narrative will be captivating enough not to forget during long battles (lol)

Originally Posted by purpleblob
Im afraid TB combat will break the immersion, especially if they follow the D:OS' example. Last thing I want is going through a loooooooooooong (even if it's fun and engaging combat) battle and have to reload or completely forgotten the story/dialogue whatever.

Torment shouldnt have many generic encounters. Less combat, but meaningfull. If the game is slowly building towards some important battle then long and probably hard battle perfectly complements the narrative. So its more likely vice versa and not the way you describe it.
I also dont think that players engaged by the plot would "completely forgot story/dialogue" after some battle. Maybe there is some person like that but it sounds very unlikely.

Originally Posted by luj1
Do you remember the Carceri/Baator arc? You needed to battle through several overrun areas , with almost no dialogue, to reach the Pillar of Skulls.

Not necessarily. You just had to reach the portal, so the easiest way was simply to rush through the area and not to pick up any gauntlet. Combat avoided, takes half a minute or less. Try that in turn-based mode.

yeah… Maybe something is wrong with my memory I dunnp, but between the start of Carceri area and Pillar of Skulls there is 80-90% fighting

Originally Posted by Avantenor
Not necessarily. You just had to reach the portal, so the easiest way was simply to rush through the area and not to pick up any gauntlet. Combat avoided, takes half a minute or less. Try that in turn-based mode.

Originally Posted by luj1
yeah… Maybe something is wrong with my memory I dunnp, but between the start of Carceri area and Pillar of Skulls there is 80-90% fighting

This is true, but only if you choose to fight it all. I did the same thing when I first played it, as I didn't realize it was optional, but the reality is that the vast majority of it can be skipped.

And that is a good example of why my interest dropped when they announced it would be TB instead of RTwP. Like Sacred_Path, purplebob and Avantenor, I played PS: T for the story, setting and characters, and as such I'm simply not interested in long combat sequences, even if the combat is good.

Divinity: Original Sin is an excellent example, as the combat is fantastic and I love it, but I still wouldn't want a spiritual successor of PS: T to play anything like it. It's too disruptive.

So, to answer this question:

Originally Posted by sea
Wouldn't you prefer combat that's interesting and different and worth playing, instead of something you just want to skip past?

No, I would not.

Interesting thread. I'm not sure where I stand on this. I prefere TB as a rule these days, I loved PoE but I thought the combat was sometimes a bit weak, eg when it wasn't clear to me what was actually going on the muddle of fighting folk and therefore how I could influence it. TB is clearly better for this. But yeah for a heavily story based rpg, maybe RTwP would help things along more quickly to the next bit of the story.

Eh, actually, I'm still coming down on the TB side. I guess a thoughtful and slow approach to combat could well fit the atmosphere they're trying to create.

Well, if you only play the game for the story, setting etc.. does it need to have combat at all in it ?

Torment was a huge disappointment for me. I bought it sight unseen because it was an IE game and I had loved all the games before it. So while I was expecting more baldurs gate or icewind dale I got a long winding boring dialogue fest with poor combat, limited classes, a wise cracking skull that wasn't funny at all and a wierd death mechanic.

It was definitely original and different but it just wasn't for me.

I question whether people are open minded enough to accept a different take on this Torment title compared to what Planescape Torment did. Will people be criticising it for not doing things like Planescape did them or will they embrace and accept this games themes and ideas?

It all comes down to execution and nailing that first impression. I believe this game will nail it but I know what to expect criticism wise also.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
Well, if you only play the game for the story, setting etc.. does it need to have combat at all in it ?

Good question. I'm not sure to be honest. PS: T probably could have been a really good adventure game.

Overall, I'd probably prefer it with combat though, as it's a way to illustrate character progress. Playing a high INT/WIS mage is vastly different from a very strong fighter, and the combat can make TNO feel very powerful near the end, even if the combat itself isn't all that great.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
Well, if you only play the game for the story, setting etc.. does it need to have combat at all in it ?

An rpg without combat? But… But that's crazy talk!
Although yeah you're right of course, if it could be done well it would be interesting.