Diablo 3 - Post-Mortem with Jay Wilson

Diabloii.net has interviewed game director Jay Wilson about Diablo 3 in what is to be a 5 part interview.

I've been gone a while but I come back with what I can say is the biggest interview I've ever had, both in word count and the interview itself: Former game director for Diablo 3, Jay Wilson. I reached out to Jay after I noticed him talking about the game on twitter after a long hiatus. It felt like a long shot, and I understood any hesitation in talking about the franchise, however to my surprise he agreed. Due to length I'll be breaking it up into five parts and making the whole interview viewable as one after that. What follows is a candid, introspective look at the genesis of D3 and the man behind it.


What is your gaming background? Favorite games?

I've been playing video games almost as long as there have been video games. Childhood is a blur of Atari, arcades, Commodore, and the NES. Most of my life I've been a big fan of action, strategy, and sandboxes where I can wreak havoc. Here are some of the games that had a big impact on me:

Starflight 2 - The scale of it blew my little mind. Explore a galaxy, land on planets, interact with aliens, and eventually go back in time and see what the galaxy looked like in the past. On top of that you built and progressed your ship and your crew. Few games do so much, and I remember it doing it all pretty well for the time.

Populous - First strategy game that made a big impression on me.

Tie Fighter - For the campaign, and for being the first game that really made me feel like I was ‘in' the Star Wars universe.

X-com (original) - I love turn-based squad strategy, but I also loved the completely open metagame of worldwide base management, and the theme. If I had to pick a favorite game of all time this is it.

Doom - I played Doom for countless hours. It was really a revolution in what games could accomplish. Making levels for Doom as a hobby was how I got into the game industry.

Magic Carpet - A theme I'm starting to notice with this list is I always loved games that redefined my sense of scope and possibility. Magic Carpet did that in spades. The first time I created an earthquake that destroyed the terrain for what felt like miles I was hooked.

Diablo - First RPG I played that combined my love of action games while putting me directly into the dungeon. For me it immersed me in the world even more than Ultima Underworld (which was also awesome). I also loved the more grounded fantasy. Just people and demons and squigglies (bad things that aren't demons).

Starcraft - This is really the game that got me heavily into the RTS genre, and eventually I got a job making them.

City of Heroes - First MMO I really liked, primarily because it gave me a sense of real power. Most MMO's you fought really tiny, unimpressive stuff early on, and the combat was very slow. I also love superheroes.

World of Warcraft - First MMO I played like it was a job.

Minecraft - Mostly heavily modded, but I actively avoid playing it now because when I do all other life events get put on hold, except maybe eating.

Honorable mentions: Pools of Radiance, Mechwarrior, Outlaws, Fallout 1-4, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, the new X-com games.

More information.

I can agree with a lot of games on that list, at least the ones that were PC games.
So sad modern kids learn about games from the likes of Sims, CoD X or Diablo 3.

Hey, the original Sims was groundbreaking, man. I remember when it hit in the '90s. I didn't have a PC at first that could run it, but my boy's family was rich and he had a great PC. We'd be up all night playing that thing, I'm looking at the screen with my jaw dropped the whole time. Not long after we got a PC and I played the heck out of it. I remember later downloading a bunch of mods, furniture packs (lol) and what not. Fun game and introduced a totally new experience. And honestly, if you want to check out similar games that IMO are even more fun, check out Roller Coaster Tycoon, Pizza Tycoon, Theme Park, Theme Hospital, Zoo Tycoon and more games like that. They also captured my imagination in a huge way as a kid, especially Theme Park on the PS1. I wore that disc out, bruh.

Edit - Diablo 3 is pretty good. It has surprisingly fun and intense combat, which I wasn't expecting. The loot/character building/etc. aspects are typical of a Diablo game (i.e. extensive), and it's really not a bad game to play with a friend. They even added a bit of story with optional dialogue, and the story and atmosphere is pretty dang cool, even if you won't confuse the game with a story-heavy RPG. All in all, if you have played Sacred + Sacred 2 + Diablo + Diablo 2 already, check out Diablo 3. Use a controller and you'll have a blast.

WTF did I just read?!?!

Please people, ignore what fluent said if you value your sanity.

Diablo 3 has the best combat from all aRPGs ever made. Besides that it doesn't shine with anything other exceptional and Wilson is the person who made things very wrong at the beginning. The whole itemization concept he applied was totally wrong and is still killing the game for the hardcore fans. The big question now is - will there be Diablo 4 anytime soon?

That is a bold statement. Personally I didn't find even its combat anything special.

Originally Posted by Archangel
WTF did I just read?!?!

Please people, ignore what fluent said if you value your sanity.

Maybe for your sanity you can try different types of RPGs and see what each one does well, etc. Broaden your horizons at the same time having fun and seeing different design techniques, etc. Can't go wrong with that.

Originally Posted by Ferris_bg
Diablo 3 has the best combat from all aRPGs ever made. Besides that it doesn't shine with anything other exceptional and Wilson is the person who made things very wrong at the beginning. The whole itemization concept he applied was totally wrong and is still killing the game for the hardcore fans. The big question now is - will there be Diablo 4 anytime soon?

Yes, Diablo 3's combat is exceptional. It's tense, deadly, lots of fast, furious action, movement-based, you have to think quickly on your feet and more. Even if you get into the particle effects and graphics side, which I don't generally care about, you have to admit it's pretty impressively done in Diablo 3. The controls are good, there are endless ways to outfit your character and actively change your combat style and strategy, not only with loot but also your skills, passives, runes, etc. Then you factor in that you have to really have to combine some fast thinking with intelligent thinking as well, whether it's dodging pillars of fire coming at you, avoiding an AoE attack or just timing your next skill cooldown while trying to stay alive at the same time , it really keeps you on your toes. The end result is that it's just ridiculously addictive and fun action-RPG combat. So I would also say it's my favorite action-RPG combat in the style of fast and furious action combat.

Originally Posted by Archangel
That is a bold statement. Personally I didn't find even its combat anything special.

Have you played on harder difficulties? Fought plenty of Elites or Rare monsters? How about combinations of Rare + Elites? Those are fun. Have you fought those nasty demons that occasionally spawn and are very difficult to kill? It's pretty intense and fun combat, man. I honestly didn't think I was going to have nearly as much with this game as I am, and a very large part of that is the way they did the combat.

It doesn't replace or override my love of old-school or turn-based combat, it just scratches the itch for over-the-top action combat for me.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Maybe for your sanity you can try different types of RPGs and see what each one does well, etc. Broaden your horizons at the same time having fun and seeing different design techniques, etc. Can't go wrong with that.

Have you finally played Fallout 1 and 2?
If you have not, please stop now with any advice giving about RPGs. Especially to me.

You are just like that guy that came here from hardcore gamer site and admitted he never played Bloodlines and didn't care about fixing that mistake while acting all important and shit.

Have you played on harder difficulties? Fought plenty of Elites or Rare monsters? How about combinations of Rare + Elites? Those are fun. Have you fought those nasty demons that occasionally spawn and are very difficult to kill? It's pretty intense and fun combat, man. I honestly didn't think I was going to have nearly as much with this game as I am, and a very large part of that is the way they did the combat.

It doesn't replace or override my love of old-school or turn-based combat, it just scratches the itch for over-the-top action combat for me.

Yes, I played on hardest difficulty but not hardcore. I got one character to lvl 60 in first few months after release, got some others to 50 or so. Later when the big patch hit together with expansion (which I didn't buy) I played it again and got to top level again (but didn't bother with end game grind).

Combat was pretty meh both times. I only played it to rest a bit from playing Grim Dawn too much (and Path of Exile had desync problems at the time).

Originally Posted by Archangel
Have you finally played Fallout 1 and 2?
If you have not, please stop now with any advice giving about RPGs. Especially to me.

You are just like that guy that came here from hardcore gamer site and admitted he never played Bloodlines and didn't care about fixing that mistake while acting all important and shit.

Yes, I played on hardest difficulty but not hardcore. I got one character to lvl 60 in first few months after release, got some others to 50 or so. Later when the big patch hit together with expansion (which I didn't buy) I played it again and got to top level again (but didn't bother with end game grind).

Combat was pretty meh both times. I only played it to rest a bit from playing Grim Dawn too much (and Path of Exile had desync problems at the time).

You played the game that much and you didn't find it special. So, which action-RPG in a hack n' slash RPG has combat that is special in your opinion?

Diablo 2, Grim Dawn, even end game Path of Exile is better.

And it is not that much. 10-20h at most. Diablo 3 is a noob game.

Mmmk.

Originally Posted by Ferris_bg
Diablo 3 has the best combat from all aRPGs ever made. Besides that it doesn't shine with anything other exceptional and Wilson is the person who made things very wrong at the beginning. The whole itemization concept he applied was totally wrong and is still killing the game for the hardcore fans. The big question now is - will there be Diablo 4 anytime soon?

I can only assume you mean diablo likes and not all ARPG's. Otherwise DS, LOTR: war in the north, skyrim, witcher, dragons dogma, well I could go on and on. basically any action rpg that's not a diablo like has better combat.

I've mentioned here before but my son and I tried playing through diablo 3 and just couldn't, combat was the main reason. Mind numbingly easy and boring. The breaking point was when my son found an armor that would return damage when he was hit. Well, his hp regeneration was so high that enemies actually killed themselves when attacking him. He'd just stand there watching them die. If that's the best combat then I don't know what to say.

I don't know Archangel, I find fluent's "glass is half full" refreshing. Especially when it comes to the gaming community, which seems endlessly mired in cynicism.

Originally Posted by sakichop
Otherwise DS, LOTR: war in the north, skyrim, witcher, dragons dogma, well I could go on and on. basically any action rpg that's not a diablo like has better combat.

Those are not the same as Diablo, IMO. Diablo is an isometric, hack n' slash action-RPG. You should be comparing the combat to games like Torchlight, Sacred + Sacred 2, Grim Dawn and things like this. Even if you do include the games you mentioned (most of which I've played), none of them have combat as fast, furious and exciting as Diablo 3 to me. They are fun games and all and have fine combat (I really liked LOTR: War In the North and think it's quite overlooked), but D3's overall combat mechanics, how skills/runes/loot interact to bolster and change your combat styles and strategies, etc., makes the combat fast, furious and very fun.

Your son must be a Wizard in real life if he finds the combat mind-numbingly boring and easy. Are you playing on Torment difficulty? It's not the hardest game but my dad and I just turned it up to Master near the start of Act V and got plastered in the last battle with Rare + Elite enemies. And that is also while having very well picked gear, proper gems and skills outfitted, etc. Demons will also wreck you quick. Maybe I'm getting old but I find the game very satisfying and a bit of a test of mental ability to think quickly on your feet as well as stick skills, especially when you're dodging those laser traps that rip through you, while being a squishy mage and being chased by some massive hitting enemy, trying all the while not to get cornered while a Rare enemy is making the floor underneath you molten, only to have archers shooting at you from a distance and Elite enemies that have knockback knocking you all over the place, often into flaming pillars or those lasers I mentioned.

It's almost like a modern Smash TV or something. Constant movement, playing angles and this sort of thing. It's really fun stuff, IMO.

Oh, and bless Blizzard for introducing Massacres. It's exhilarating and just silly fun to string those kill streaks together.

I really can't understand all the praise for Diablo 3 and its combat. For me D3 has done so much wrong that its practicly unplayable. Especially the combat and the champ abilitys. There are so much better better ARPGs like POE, Grim Dawn, Torchlight 1 and 2. I even enjoyed smaller games like Van Helsing, Victor Vran and Shadows: Heretic Kingdoms much more.
Did the guys who praise D3 actually play other ARPGs enough to really compare?

Combat itself is nothing out of this world good…speed, basic combo strings and kiting…but Blizzard sound and visual design, animation polish/rewarding enemy deaths plus loot make it immensely addictive. Almost sets up the kind of Pavlovian conditioning…there are reported cases of some people who've died from playing it.
Sort of video game equivalent of a slot machine.

Except loot is terrible and totally not exciting. There is 0 incentive to keep playing it once you hit 60.

Y'all some haters, man. lol

Loot in Diablo 3 is too spreadsheet-y, IMO. It's not bad, but I would prefer when RPGs like this have less clinical implementation of these systems and more of an RPG-feel to them. I understand why they do it this way, though, since millions of players are going to play it and take it seriously and all that, so this way it makes it more cut and dry and easier to understand. I like some of the synergies the loot system creates with your skills, playstyle, etc. and there are decisions to be made about how you want to build your character and which stats to focus on. But overall the loot system is not my ideal cup of tea.

I still have to disagree about combat. I think it's really fun and satisfying. And yes, the game is incredibly polished. I don't care about graphics/animations and this sort of thing to the level that Bobo does, but I have to give Blizzard props for the level of polish they achieved with the game graphically and with the way the game runs. Getting this game to run the way it does on Xbox 360 is nothing short of a miracle. The UI on console needs a lot of work, though, especially when you are playing in local co-op.

It's very addictive but no more than any other RPG, IMO. I don't get a slot machine feel from it, but I never have gotten that from an RPG. Any RPG can be addictive if you're into it. I played Anachronox recently and did a several hour straight session, loving it. Maybe people who are prone to video game addiction or something might feel differently, dunno.

The game is just fun, man. If I need something slower, more nerdy or immersive in the world-building I'll play something else. But for a local co-op hack n' slash lootfest it's really one of the funnest my dad and I have played. Still would probably take Sacred 2 over it, though.

I think D3 is a fun game, but one thing which turns me off is how characters can be respeced so easily… I know this is intended and the concept works alright for this kind of game, but I just don't like this trend when character choises can be changed so easily… When you level up, it should matter and it should an important decision how to allocate your points,feats etc. Isn't it large part of what rpgs are all about?

If respec is available, it should be a special thing linked to a quest or something. I'm likely in the minority here though.

Originally Posted by Dez
I think D3 is a fun game, but one thing which turns me off is how characters can be respeced so easily… I know this is intended and the concept works alright for this kind of game, but I just don't like this trend when character choises can be changed so easily… When you level up, it should matter and it should an important decision how to allocate your points,feats etc. Isn't it large part of what rpgs are all about?

If respec is available, it should be a special thing linked to a quest or something. I'm likely in the minority here though.

Nah, I can dig that. For most RPGs I would agree with you. I'm playing Lords of Xulima right now and I don't think it would be cool to be able to change your abilities and spells whenever you want to. Even in Sacred 2, which is a Diablo-style RPG that you level your character to 200, you want to make lasting decisions and develop your character throughout the game because that is the type of game it is.

Diablo 3's system works for the game. It's about getting a large pool of stuff to choose from and play with, and with each level you develop your favorite playstyle and the unique way you want to play. The level ups don't have stat allocations but you do get an ability upgrade or 2, a new passive or an augmentation for an ability. So you still have to make decisions as to how you want to play your character and develop your playstyle, but it's not as impacting in the sense that you can't switch it out later.

Usually what happens, though, is not that you just switch out a bunch of abilities all willy-nilly, but rather you adapt as you go, augmenting the abilities you're already using and thinking of clever new ways to create skill synergies. Since there are so many abilities you can choose, and then the ability to augment those with runes and passives which can impact them as well, you end up slowly over the course of the game developing your own unique way of playing the game. Generally once you find what you like you're going to stick with it. I have no desire at level 55 to switch my skills at all, just possibly augment them a bit differently if something really interesting comes up. You kind of know how you want to play and you're going to want to stick with it and get good with that style you've created.

I dunno. I wouldn't want to respect in most RPGs as I think that's lame and not too enjoyable, but Diablo 3 is sort of a weird exception, and it doesn't really feel like a re-spec as you're just swapping out abilities and passives. I think that makes it feel better compared to something like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning where when you re-spec you basically can go from a Thief to a Mage, or from a Staff-wielding mage to a Warrior with 2-handed hammers. That is a bit too much, IMO.

It's a fun game, indeed. I re-spec Blizzard for what they've done with D3.