Pillars of Eternity II - First Stretch Goal

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
I never got into DnD that much and have a couple of embarrassing questions:

What's a "kit?"
What's the difference between "multi-class" and "sub-class" these seem to imply the same result "more than one class" but these have different meanings?

A sub-class is not "more than one class", it's more like a class specialization selected at character creation that comes with trade off on the base class.

For example, in BG2 the Undead Hunter was a kit for the Paladin that granted you damage bonus to undead and immunity to level drain/hold at the cost of not being able to use "lay-on-hand", but you had all the other Paladin abilities/talent.

IMO they are freaking cool and add a lot more "gameplay personality" to your characters.

Originally Posted by azarhal
A sub-class is not "more than one class", it's more like a class specialization selected at character creation that comes with trade off on the base class.

So theoretically, you could just replace the term, "sub-class" with "class specialization?" where there is specialization at the cost of something else within the base class? Is that right?

Am I correct that the term, "multi-class" could be replace with "duel-class?" Would that be accurate?

I'm trying to understand these terms without having to do too much research. Playing PoE now and the last time I played a game like this was BG1 and BG2 (the originals from waaaay back) and even then I didn't understand DnD too well. I want to spend more time playing the game than researching as I have little time and figures you guys here could get me up to speed with these specifics quickly. Thank you for taking the time to answer.

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Classes

Scroll down to Class Kits section and there are the kits from BG.

Originally Posted by Fluent
http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Classes

Scroll down to Class Kits section and there are the kits from BG.

Thanks Fluent. That's a pretty good website there… easy to understand for DnD noobs like me.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
Thanks Fluent. That's a pretty good website there… easy to understand for DnD noobs like me.

No problem. In short, kits are fantastic, and are basically specializations in a class. It seems like a small thing but it goes way further in the fun factor department then it really should. Good for re-playability as well.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
So theoretically, you could just replace the term, "sub-class" with "class specialization?" where there is specialization at the cost of something else within the base class? Is that right?

Yes/no. Depends what you are used to play.

I personally see specialization has something that add to your base class, there is no trade off outside not having access to the other specializations. While, I see sub-class as full classes that just happen to share a progression table, thematic and some mechanics with another class.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
Am I correct that the term, "multi-class" could be replace with "duel-class?" Would that be accurate?

We don't know the multiclass limitation yet, if it gets limited to two classes than yes it could be called "dual-class".

Originally Posted by azarhal
I personally see specialization has something that add to your base class, there is no trade off outside not having access to the other specializations. While, I see sub-class as full classes that just happen to share a progression table, thematic and some mechanics with another class.

Well there definitely are trade-offs for choosing Kits and Prestige Classes, so I'm expecting the same here.

I heartily endorse kits. Prestige classes….ehhh not so much. At least the way they were presented in Dnd 3ed, they had a lot of specific requirements for the way you level your character, resulting in a lot of cookie cutter builds.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
Am I correct that the term, "multi-class" could be replace with "duel-class?" Would that be accurate?

Depends which game you're talking about and which edition if you're talking about D&D.

In the IE games, which all used the 2nd Edition ruleset, duel-class was when a human character took on a second class in addition to his starting class. Only humans could dual-class, and only non-humans could multi-class. Multi-classing allowed up to 3 classes (more in later editions) and certain races have certain restrictions.

Originally Posted by Nephologist
I thought the pathfinding in Pillars was a definite improvement over IE pathfinding. Not perfect by any means, but still an improvement.

One of my favorite things to do in IWD, in Kuldahar, is to start my party in the lower right corner and then give a group command to go to Orrick's tower. Wait 20 to 30 seconds then pause and see where everyone ended up. MAYBE one or two of my group actually made it to Orrick's tower, the rest are bunched up near the inn, or working their way around Arundel's house or Gerth's shop.

Good times

PoE let your characters pass through each other when out of combat. That was their "fix". But as soon as combat started in PoE, pathfinding was probably worse than BG2 and engagement only made it worse.

Originally Posted by rjshae
Well there definitely are trade-offs for choosing Kits and Prestige Classes, so I'm expecting the same here.

As well there should be, IMO. The Kits become much more interesting if you have trade-offs, i.e. you can't use heavy armor but you get an extra spell cast each level (generic example, but you get the idea).

I still haven't played the first one yet.

Untouched in my steam library.
Do you have to devote a lot of time and engagement to enjoy it?

Bit short on both right now.

C

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
… products without an audience… UgoIgo…

Here we go again…

Originally Posted by Crilloan
I still haven't played the first one yet.

Untouched in my steam library.
Do you have to devote a lot of time and engagement to enjoy it?

Bit short on both right now.

C

There is definitley a lot to see in PoE. IMO its fascination also derives from these small stories around the world. Regarding the fact that narrative of PoE2 is based on the Endless Paths of Odd Nua, which is an optional quest, I think you should take your time.

I'm not so sure what you mean by engagement? I don't think you need much devotion to the ruleset to get to the end of the game. For the bottom of the Endless Paths, that's another story.

They're going gang busters on the funding. It's good to see. Probably won't put an end to the pedantic negativity, but still it's encouraging.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
Posts strengthen once more the point made multiple times: PoE, Tyranny, and PoE2 are products without an audience.

Congratulations! You just won the "dumbest post in the history of the Internet award". Now, please turn off your computer, take it to the nearest river, and throw it in. And never connect again. Thank you.

And another bite the dust. Stretch goal #2 achieved, level cap now at 18.

Next stretch goal at 1.8m is a 7th companion (Xoti a Eothas priest/monk) and Polish localization…it should fall tomorrow because the 2.0m stretch goal is party AI customization via scripting (and Spanish) and a lots of people wants that.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
Posts strengthen once more the point made multiple times: PoE, Tyranny, and PoE2 are products without an audience.
Comments on micromanagement make no sense.

I guess POE has no audience because it sold almost 1,000,000 copies and made Obsidian a nice profit. POE 2 must have no audience because it crowd funded its goal in under 24 hours, and probably will double if not quadruple it.

Originally Posted by forgottenlor
I guess POE has no audience because it sold almost 1,000,000 copies and made Obsidian a nice profit. POE 2 must have no audience because it crowd funded its goal in under 24 hours, and probably will double if not quadruple it.

It's simple: having an audience or not is a binary metric. Selling less than 1,000,000 copies means no audience, more means audience.