Torment: Tides of Numenera - Cut Companions

Originally Posted by Avantenor
But more text or details doesn't necessarily result in more depth. Sometimes beauty also comes with simplicity.

Agreed. See my Yammering About RPGs With Fluent video about Suikoden where I talk a bit about this. They managed to make most if not all of their 108 characters in each game at least a bit interesting, sometimes without even having to a say a word.

Also, for crafting, I think it's cool when it encourages experimentation and often results in surprises you didn't think were possible. Divinity: Original Sin is a good recent example of this.

Originally Posted by Avantenor
Cancelling a complete localization and don't communicate it on the other hand… well. You could expect more sensibility from a producer team, because it's their job to meet demands of different stakeholders.

Some localizations were cut? I thought the release date was pushed back so that the localization could be completed? At any rate, additional localization can always be provided later.

Originally Posted by rjshae
I thought the release date was pushed back so that the localization could be completed?

That was the publicly communicated (BS) reason. The real reason was they wanted to finish the console versions for a simultaneous release on PC and consoles.

Originally Posted by Moriendor
That was the publicly communicated (BS) reason. The real reason was they wanted to finish the console versions for a simultaneous release on PC and consoles.

This is from an inside source, or is it just a rumor? Whatever. They're a business, so presumably it makes financial sense to do that.

Originally Posted by rjshae
This is from an inside source, or is it just a rumor? Whatever. They're a business, so presumably it makes financial sense to do that.

Nah. Just common sense (well, what I consider as common which might be crazy uncommon for other people, of course ). They announced the final delay to Q1/2017 in mid June 2016 and the main reason given was extra time for polishing the localizations.
Then six weeks later in early August 2016 they revealed that the game was also going to be a simultaneous release on consoles.

Anyone is free to do their own math and put two and two together but to me it is obvious why the final delay decision was made primarily (sure, as a secondary bonus the delay also gave them extra time for additional polishing but apparently not enough time to include the promised Italian localization or the cut companions etc.).

Okay, well here's a little math: TToN has around a million words to translate into multiple languages. Meanwhile, the software is being written in Unity, which has built-in multi-platform support. Which part do you imagine takes more labor to implement?

I'll take Words for $100, Alex.

Originally Posted by rjshae
Some localizations were cut? I thought the release date was pushed back so that the localization could be completed? At any rate, additional localization can always be provided later.

Not a matter of delay, they said they decided the Italian localization just isn't worth the money to produce.

Originally Posted by rjshae
Okay, well here's a little math: TToN has around a million words to translate into multiple languages. Meanwhile, the software is being written in Unity, which has built-in multi-platform support. Which part do you imagine takes more labor to implement?

You mean labor on the part of inXile who are working with an engine that supports multiple platforms as well as multiple language versions? Much less than the console port for sure.

They certainly don't do the translations themselves and including (copying&pasting) the outsourced translations back into the game via the editing tools is something that a bunch of interns could do working in shifts in a fairly short amount of time (if that is even required… I don't know how Unity handles multiple languages exactly but they might even have more convenient ways to work with outsourced localization which could minimize any manual work).

The console port OTOH requires a lot on the part of the actual devs because they need to adhere to all the standards and specifications of the consoles, meet requirements, pass certifications, yada, yada, yada. It's quite a lot of actual extra development work instead of something that is not even done in-house for the most part like localizations.
The console port also requires a different interface and lots of fine-tuning due to the text-heavy nature of the game (inXile said they wanted to pay extra attention to making it viable to read long texts from 10ft away on the couch).

The PC version was promised to be DRM-free. Chances are 99.9% that the main reason for the delay was the simultaneous release on PC and consoles to minimize the effects of PC piracy on console sales.

Originally Posted by Moriendor
You mean labor on the part of inXile who are working with an engine that supports multiple platforms as well as multiple language versions? Much less than the console port for sure.

It's certainly a time constraint, regardless of how it impacts inXile employees. Hence it's a schedule driver. Once you realize the required timeline, the management will then look at other "opportunities" to turn it to their advantage. Presto, you get the simultaneous console port release plan coming after the decision to slide the schedule. It's a simplified release schedule, which is advantageous from a business perspective.

Originally Posted by Moriendor
The PC version was promised to be DRM-free. Chances are 99.9% that the main reason for the delay was the simultaneous release on PC and consoles to minimize the effects of PC piracy on console sales.

I think you're wrong about the motivation for the delay, but possibly correct about the benefit. You're just being too paranoid about this.

More broken kickstarter promises. This is why I've held off backing anything for quite a while despite the temptation. ( really tempted by POE2)

I have a feeling this would be a much different and nastier thread if this were EA or Bethesda.

I constantly read about broken promises but can't find what exact promises were broken in Torment2.

Nastier if it wasn't inXile? Really?
I remember yelling like crazy about MMOization of Wasteland3 and what happened? Noone basically reacted - I just got answers to shove off with my once bitten twice shy. And it's also inXile.

Development of a game involves numerous plans and ideas, some of those just don't fit in the final product or are too complicated to realize in some reasonable time. So some content gets cut. Some of it return over time as we saw with Kotor2 where fans reconstructed cut materials. Some returns as DLC if developer has funds to finish later what was cut - please do not mix this with deliberate cutouts to milk fans. Some cuts don't appear ever in a game, but sometimes gets integrated within another game (usually a sequel).
And some content is cut because the publisher does not want to admit PC pwnage over garbageware. Code: Watch Dogs. Thank god for modders.

Where exactly inXile went wrong with Torment2? Show me please. I just don't see it.

They've cut stretch goals, i.e. features that have been promised for achieving specific funding goals. And they didn't communicate it.

Originally Posted by Avantenor
They've cut stretch goals, i.e. features that have been promised for achieving specific funding goals. And they didn't communicate it.

i.e. they've ripped off backers that paid hard-earned cash for those stretch goals, thereby cementing Fargo's rep as an out and out thief.

Sure, most if not all games have content cut for a bunch of reasons. No big deal on this part.

However, they - InXile - did advertise the game on said cut content during the Kickstarter Pitch. This makes it kinda of a big deal, not to mention they further salted the wound with zero communication up to this point, and at this point it has been months, if not years since they knew there was going to be a lesser number of companions than originally advertised/promised. I mean we're like a month from release and a companion is not soemthing you throw in the game in the last minute. Or the 2nd City.

Furthermore, they - again InXile - flat out lied twice - once, with the advertised Italian translation which they are not delivering, even when this was cited as one of the reasons for the last delay, which was really for the simultaneous console release, and a 2nd time, when they said getting a publisher in Techland was to pawn off stuff like lcalizations, among other things, when it was just a nice bonus, they got a publisher for again, the console release, since no boxed console versions would get them zilch (I would think), since Digital only release is not a biggie on the console front. Pawning off localizations and other stuff was a nice side bonus to that, but still.

In any case, we would have already had Torment 2 already out if not for Fargo's console play. Which I'm majorly puzzled about. Original Torment has always been a niche title, why would its "spiritual successor" be any big on consoles right now?

Wish they pushed a mobile port, and they would probsbly get morr sales on that

Originally Posted by joxer
I constantly read about broken promises but can't find what exact promises were broken in Torment2.

Nastier if it wasn't inXile? Really?
I remember yelling like crazy about MMOization of Wasteland3 and what happened? Noone basically reacted - I just got answers to shove off with my once bitten twice shy. And it's also inXile.

Development of a game involves numerous plans and ideas, some of those just don't fit in the final product or are too complicated to realize in some reasonable time. So some content gets cut. Some of it return over time as we saw with Kotor2 where fans reconstructed cut materials. Some returns as DLC if developer has funds to finish later what was cut - please do not mix this with deliberate cutouts to milk fans. Some cuts don't appear ever in a game, but sometimes gets integrated within another game (usually a sequel).
And some content is cut because the publisher does not want to admit PC pwnage over garbageware. Code: Watch Dogs. Thank god for modders.

Where exactly inXile went wrong with Torment2? Show me please. I just don't see it.

You yell scam at things like pre-orders, season pass, Xcom 2 adding a class, etc. Yet you don't see anything wrong with offering stretch goals to milk more money from customers and then cutting them? and yes if this was Bethesda or EA it would be nastier and you would be leading the charge. It would be in your BS of the week thread.

Originally Posted by Moriendor
The PC version was promised to be DRM-free. Chances are 99.9% that the main reason for the delay was the simultaneous release on PC and consoles to minimize the effects of PC piracy on console sales.

The iNXile website says that GOG keys will be provided after launch if you trade in your steam key. I dont remember exact verbiage but sounded like they will try to fulfill this.

Pulling back on the translations without explanation isn't very nice but they indicate they will refund money to those wanting those translations. Not ideal but I know I'm not going to back PoE2 this time around for a number of reasons but this doesn't help.

Just not seeing the outrage. The Italian localization is not that big a deal, Jesus. Just how many Italian customers of Torment: Tides of Numenera are out there? Maybe, oh, a handful or so, relatively speaking. It's a very small number, let's be blunt. The way some go on and on about it in some previous posts, you would think it is millions upon millions. Gimme a break. And I have a feeling most Italians will be able to get by with an English edition, somehow. (I think most Italians know English as a second language, let's get real)

I'm a backer of the game, and I'm not disappointed in any way whatsoever, indeed, I'm glad they have taken such a long time to make it because I have heard very good things about all the polish and improvements they have made, and I'm looking forward when the game drops in a month or so. Just to offer a different perspective.

Originally Posted by sakichop
You yell scam at things like pre-orders, season pass, Xcom 2 adding a class, etc. Yet you don't see anything wrong with offering stretch goals to milk more money from customers and then cutting them? and yes if this was Bethesda or EA it would be nastier and you would be leading the charge. It would be in your BS of the week thread.

Not really, no… If Bethesda or EA made a KS project then it'd go into bs thread, not because something they already did - EA cut so many content to sell as DLC a game without such thing would be a miracle. Maybe we need a miracle thread perhaps? Or not… It'd be empty.

To be honest I never read stretch goals. Backed the project before those were even mentioned.
I wish someone listed which ones were removed.
Translations/localization, sorry, I don't know what and why, but better none than lousy or laughable translation.

Originally Posted by figment
The iNXile website says that GOG keys will be provided after launch if you trade in your steam key. I dont remember exact verbiage but sounded like they will try to fulfill this.

I can't believe there are still people hung up over Steam.

Originally Posted by beldurax
i.e. they've ripped off backers that paid hard-earned cash for those stretch goals, thereby cementing Fargo's rep as an out and out thief.

I can understand disappointment. I believe they are offering refunds for those that want them. You could say the same of Larian regarding the lack of a day/night cycle for D:OS, the only real difference is the lack of upfront communication. InXile needs to take this criticism regarding communication onboard and move forward with this in mind.