Torment: Tides of Numenera - New Story Trailer

Man, I can't even imagine skimming text in an RPG, but that's just me.

Actually, I can imagine skimming text.

I've read through every single line of Planescape back in the days. I did not regret it, but it was because I was fascinated with that universe and that storyline. It was something unique. Not exactly 20 years later I've seen so many things in the meanwhile, that I'm living in a permant deja-vu. So why should I read carefully what dozens of more or less talented game writers have already written before?

Even when the "why we do things" is the most important thing, it's still boring when it can't influence the "what we do" and the "how we do it". Unfortunately that's limited by the game engine and mechanics. So normally, it's always the same thing. Some designers think, writing whole novellas about the motivation does make it better and qualifies them as poets. The answer is no. You can cover it up with as many words as you want, when in most cases it's still "This is your sword, there is the enemy, kill 'em all". It doesn't make it more meaningful and you're still like a composer for service sounds of a deep fryer, even if you think of yourself as Chopin.

So I do understand people not reading carefully every line, especially when it comes to standard high epic fantasy with "Save your kingdom/princess" storyline. If you're not going to be fascinated by that storyline this game is going to be your worst nightmare, that's for sure.

Well that's extremely cynical and I don't see it that way. If I ever got to the point I don't want to read text in an RPG then it would be time for me to hang up my keyboard and mouse and do something else.

Eh, I think it's natural and somewhat inevitable. I actually played Planescape for the first time a few years ago and noticed myself skimming a lot more than I did two decades ago.

Natural? Not to me. Inevitable? 25 years of RPG gaming and I have never done it once. Even if the writing is not Shakespeare it still helps me get into the game and pay attention to it, which is kind of the point (for me).

Good trailer. Looking forward to this. Currently I am halfway through Gene Wolfes book "Shadow of the Torturer"… but oh, it's not working for me yet, will have to be patient…

Originally Posted by Fluent
Well that's extremely cynical and I don't see it that way. If I ever got to the point I don't want to read text in an RPG then it would be time for me to hang up my keyboard and mouse and do something else.

You're not the only benchmark. It's also not cynical, it's analytical. For example, I'm trained to recognize patterns and the inner point of things. That's what I and many others do. Because CRPGs are about problem solving and because the intellectual challenge is normally about zero, the point for me is crystal clear after two sentences. I'm a rationalist, I don't care that much for the form. In fact, in many cases I even don't remember the wording, only the message. It has to be impressive that I remember or feel affected, but many writers and most side quest dialogs don't have that quality. If they go really extreme, it's even wasting my time. That's what I hate most.

So, of course I skim additional text. Not because I'm only interested in mechanics, in fact it's the opposite. But because I already recognized the goal of the author and reading single purpose quests dialogs from single purpose characters in full normally doesn't add to my experience.

Just in case: I don't say everyone feels and thinks that way. There are different types of reception. But I know that I'm not the only one. You have to acknowledge that different kinds of people also have a different focus when it comes to CRPGs (role-actors, min/maxers, munchkins, …). Because of it's composition from very different aspects this genre IMHO has the potential to attract more different types of players than RTS games or traditional FPS like Doom.

The benchmark for me is that if I suddenly start feeling like I want to skim/skip text, or a game is wasting my time, it's time for me to do something else. It would indicate to me that I have lost that lovin' feeling. To each their own.

If it's true for you, so be it. For me, it's not. Just because I think the fat lady should eventually stop singing and die, doesn't mean I don't like the whole opera. IMHO she might simply die a little bit faster.

I've liked all the trailers I've seen so far, and I'm really looking forward to trying ToN.

The Billion years in the future thing is kind of weird and unrealistic, but hey it's science fiction.

Originally Posted by Avantenor
If it's true for you, so be it. For me, it's not. Just because I think the fat lady should eventually stop singing and die, doesn't mean I don't like the whole opera. IMHO she might simply die a little bit faster.

The thing is, even in RPGs where I am heavily into the mechanics (and yes, I am into mechanics heavily. If an RPG doesn't have strong mechanics and gameplay elements I will likely not be that interested ), I still want to read text. For example, I read the books in Elder Scrolls and then go ponder heavily how I want to develop my character. I talk to all NPCs and even still read the Latest Rumors, Little Advice, etc. text in Morrowind. So maybe I'm odd in that way but when I'm playing an RPG I go at it hard. Why not? Even though I've played the games already I likely have forgotten the little details in dialogue and I find that it enhances my experience. So be it.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Numenera looks dope, it's going to be good.

The trailer is SICK, by the way. One of the most interesting I've seen in awhile. This game is going to be a big hit, IMO.

I'm very excited about this one. I've been waiting to see a CRPG done with the Numenera setting for a while now, and Torment / "What is the value of a single life" is the perfect kind of existential question to ask in that setting.

I think not reading text in CRPGs makes no sense, but that's how I play the games. To me, a satisfying ending (or even moment) in a game can be just as emotionally impactful - if not moreso - than movies or TV, because of the interactivity involved. I think people telling gamers to look for meaning in other art forms are rubbish.

Trailer looks great but I won't be buying this game until I see more reviews and perhaps when it's on sale.

I'm not really into reading wall of texts within the game. Yes, I did not enjoy PS:T and I am not ashamed to admit it. It's just not my cup of tea. I would rather 'play' the game than 'read' the game. I do enjoy good dialogue and story but when writing dominates 90% of the game, fun factor declines significantly for me.

Originally Posted by purpleblob
Trailer looks great but I won't be buying this game until I see more reviews and perhaps when it's on sale.

I'm not really into reading wall of texts within the game. Yes, I did not enjoy PS:T and I am not ashamed to admit it. It's just not my cup of tea. I would rather 'play' the game than 'read' the game. I do enjoy good dialogue and story but when writing dominates 90% of the game, fun factor declines significantly for me.

And that's cool and completely understandable.

The thing is, this Numenera game will have walls of text because it is a spiritual successor to the original wall-o'-text RPG, Planescape: Torment. That's kind of the point of the game in a way.

So, while I expect it to be a big success for InXile, I can see the angry forum posts already on Steam about how the game has too much text.

While ToN may have walls of text, it also has combat that looks light years better than what we had in PS:T.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Natural? Not to me. Inevitable? 25 years of RPG gaming and I have never done it once. Even if the writing is not Shakespeare it still helps me get into the game and pay attention to it, which is kind of the point (for me).

As Willy S himself once said, "brevity is the soul of wit".

Don't get me wrong because I really want more dialogue heavy CRPGs and I'm actually getting pretty excited for T:ToN (I haven't messed around with the beta at all and have tried to avoid any spoilers so I have no idea about the quality of the writing). But of course I'm hoping it is well written and interesting because I don't want to trudge through bland walls of text any more than I want to hack through endless trash mobs of kobolds.

I get turned off quickly by a lot of highly regarded novels because most popular authors insist on going into excruciating detail about the setting, appearances, and other minutiae. I don't want or need to know how every damn door knob looks; give me an occasional cue and I can use my imagination to fill in the blanks. When I enjoy a film and find out it's based on a book, I'm actually often disappointed when I seek it out only to find how much flowery prose or filler the book has. Many mediocre novels would probably make for excellent novellas / short stories.

Thus, while I admittedly get excited by the prospect of an CRPG with a million words, I'm really hoping that it couldn't have been even better with half a million words. Guess I'll find out in a couple of weeks.

Of course the text should be well-written and interesting, I think that goes without saying. But this specific CRPG is also made as an homage and in the style of PS:T. The point isn't to be a condensed, narrowly-focused experience.

I don't think that all RPGs, or really anything, whether books, movies, etc. need to all be boiled down and condensed. There's room for different takes and styles in all things.

Originally Posted by daveyd
As Willy S himself once said, "brevity is the soul of wit".

Amen.

Craft me an intricate world but present it to me piece by piece in an interesting way.

Detail is best told over time. IMO PoE falls in that trap and, yes, it makes me want to skip stuff too many times than what's good for its story

Originally Posted by Fluent
Of course the text should be well-written and interesting, I think that goes without saying. But this specific CRPG is also made as an homage and in the style of PS:T. The point isn't to be a condensed, narrowly-focused experience.

I don't think that all RPGs, or really anything, whether books, movies, etc. need to all be boiled down and condensed. There's room for different takes and styles in all things.

Sure there's room for all sorts of RPGs and it's great that we now have a lot of different indie developers who will cater to fans of different styles. Of course, I'm not going to be interested in a hack n slash ARPG no matter how well made it is, so I understand people who like those games might never be interested in a dialogue-rich CRPG.

All I'm saying is that having walls of text just for nostalgia's sake isn't a good enough reason. There were apparently a lot of backers who wanted ToN to have RTwP combat simply because PsT did (and the clunkiest combat of all IE games I might add). This is the spiritual successor, but that's not a good enough reason IMO. And yes, yes, I know some people actually like RTwP (for some crazy reason) but since inXile already had made a turn-based tactical combat engine for WL2 and you don't have to worry about all the crazy pathfinding / AI issues with turn-based, it absolutely made sense to go with TB.

Again I'm absolutely the target audience for a dialogue driven CRPG. I may even try to go for a pacifist run. I just hope they didn't put in a bunch of boring exposition just to set a world record for RPG with the most text characters.