Torment:ToN - Review Roundup

Originally Posted by JDR13
That's not the point. If combat is really as infrequent as people are saying, the developers should have at least made that more known. It doesn't seem like anyone was expecting the battles to be this sparse.

It's a world away from the amount in PS:T. And it's a drag in my opinion, so I feel like they encourage you to avoid it where possible, except for the fact that you can get better loot if you go for more combat. I started out thinking I would finish a playthrough first as a Glaive with heavy weapons and smashing and fight my way through…but it became pretty clear to me that side of the system is pretty neglected. Some people more familiar with the system/setting have been saying a whole lot got cut.

Well it was my understanding that these "events" (I forget what you call them, "Tides"?) were occasional instances where you could fight. At least that was the impression I received in the writeups I read, but I avoided a lot of the promo material to avoid spoilers.

Originally Posted by JDR13
If combat is really as infrequent as people are saying, the developers should have at least made that more known.

It doesn't seem like anyone was expecting the battles to be this sparse.

The impression I've got is that they've made it pretty clear that combat is light or optional.

Yeah, I have now had a grand total of three fights in.. quite a few hours. Considering combat is more annoying than fun, I'm fine with that, but it does make it feel more like a text heavy adventure game than an RPG.

I finished the game. Got what I considered a decent ending. My main complaint? Man, that wasn't a very long game at all! Tyranny took me longer to finish, I believe - and that was sold as a "short" game.

I'm one of those people that likes big, epic games. Tides of Numenera really is more of a small, interesting story told in game format. I loved it but I can see where some people would have expected something quite different.

Originally Posted by ElderGnome
I loved it but I can see where some people would have expected something quite different.

Well, weren't be being told that Torment: ToN is a spiritual successor to Planetscape? So couldn't we have also expected that it'll be somewhat similar (accent on "similar") in scope?

Originally Posted by ElderGnome
I finished the game. Got what I considered a decent ending. My main complaint? Man, that wasn't a very long game at all! Tyranny took me longer to finish, I believe - and that was sold as a "short" game.

I'm one of those people that likes big, epic games. Tides of Numenera really is more of a small, interesting story told in game format. I loved it but I can see where some people would have expected something quite different.

Really? I'm still running around in the starting zone. From what I understand, that's just the first third or so of the game. I haven't had my usual "time off for playing new game" time though (saving it for MEA), and I know full well how efficient gaming is once you can play more consistently.

Originally Posted by zahratustra
Well, weren't be being told that Torment: ToN is a spiritual successor to Planetscape? So couldn't we have also expected that it'll be somewhat similar (accent on "similar") in scope?

Planescape T is not a short game.

Originally Posted by joxer
Planescape T is not a short game.

That's what I meant joxer.

Regarding combats I've had two more after the tutorial and the one right at the start. I actually lost one. I do like the combat system though, so I hope there's more. But so far the frequency has been fine in my opinion.

Regarding length I'll be disappointed if it feels to short, guess I'll know in week or so.

In general though, the most interesting setting for a game I've seen since…well, maybe ever. So far I'm loving the game, the hardest part is not starting over with a different class…

I've done no save scumming at all which many times is hard for me to resist in games, but not so in this one.

Originally Posted by pibbur who
Hmmm. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape:_Torment): "Planescape: Torment received widespread critical acclaim upon its release, but only made a small profit.".

Finding reviews from back then is a bit difficult, lots of 404's, but here are two reviews from 1999 and 2000

IGN: http://www.ign.com/articles/1999/12/…escape-torment
Eurogamer: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/torment (somewhat negative, but scored it 7/10 and 8/10 after fixing bugs).

As for reviews - I often disagree with them (and all the 9-10 scores we see now is suspicious). But who to trust? Watchers? You'll get 2 strikingly different views here. I consider it the best game of all time, and it's the only game that made lasting impression on me, beyond the fun of playing it.

pibbur who at 62 is an old gamer, and naturally can't remember any reviews himself. And really looks forward to playing the new PST wannabe. If he can remember where he installed it.

Funny, one of the citations that is a dead link is from us, Brother None's review, but wikipedia is using a "webcitation.org" link and our original is just fine:

Chris Avellone: As far as being a huge hit, I think everyone wanted Torment to sell very well (it made a profit, but not a huge one, and certainly not anywhere near Baldur's Gate numbers).

And some of the review links there are not contemporary; but well after its initial release, such as 2006 and 2007.

I think its the kind of game that Troika talked about where RPG's do well over a very long period of time.

I also recall in some reviews of the game long after it "failed" that the lack of multiplayer was a big issue - i.e. there was no reason to talk your buddies into buying a copy or taking it to a lan party or an internet cafe (even in South Korea).


it is interesting Chris Avellone's assessment of its poor sales:

Still, there were a number of elements that I think hurt it in the long run:

- Not an accessible setting. It's not a fantasy world that is comfortable for players to settle into, and we did not take pains to make it comfortable (no dwarves, elves, or halflings, as one minor example).

- Story-heavy in the wrong ways. It has a slow start, and while the momentum does pick up in the Hive, there's a lot of reading, and people don't buy games to read, they buy games to play them.

- Marketing. The box of the product reinforces #1 above - it says, "hey, we're strange," rather than promoting it as a role-playing game using the Baldur's Gate engine, which probably would have made it a more interesting target to the game community.

Personally, I got bogged down with all the text quests and gave up on it.

I find the new one is living up to the original as a 3D text adventure game.

I think I may be able to make it through if I play it in doses.

Originally Posted by zahratustra
Well, weren't be being told that Torment: ToN is a spiritual successor to Planetscape? So couldn't we have also expected that it'll be somewhat similar (accent on "similar") in scope?

Absolutely. I was a little disappointed in the length of the game as well, it was my biggest complaint.

(Edit: It took me 20 hours to complete, doing all side quests and getting the "good" ending with both companions I took. I'm just not seeing a ton of replayability here.)

Originally Posted by ElderGnome
Absolutely. I was a little disappointed in the length of the game as well, it was my biggest complaint.

(Edit: It took me 20 hours to complete, doing all side quests and getting the "good" ending with both companions I took. I'm just not seeing a ton of replayability here.)

Is the game shorter than Tyranny? I beat Tyranny in 20 hours for the first time and 15 the second time. I guess I'd kind of be disappointed if the game doesn't last at least some 30 hours.

Originally Posted by ElderGnome
Absolutely. I was a little disappointed in the length of the game as well, it was my biggest complaint.

(Edit: It took me 20 hours to complete, doing all side quests and getting the "good" ending with both companions I took. I'm just not seeing a ton of replayability here.)

That does sound fast. I suppose you're a fast reader but still…If one skipped the reading completely then that number would be fine. On the other hand, if I'm satisfied with the experience and the story after 20 hours then I suppose that's fine too. Maybe.